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Old/Deprecated stuff >> The 20 years STE anniversary demo >> Falcon compatibility?
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Message started by ggn on 20.03.09 at 23:31:09

Title: Falcon compatibility?
Post by ggn on 20.03.09 at 23:31:09
Yeah I know I should use the f-word in this board, but I'd just like to see how people would like if the screens were to be Falcon compatible too.

If the submitters don't have a Falcon to test their screens the we could do it and maybe ask for the source code to fix any bugs on the spot.

Anyway, let's see the poll's results first :)

Title: Re: Falcon compatibility?
Post by simonsunnyboy on 21.03.09 at 09:05:34
I'd love that!

On the other hand, i had quite a dispute with Zweckform at Numerica that a Falcon fixed STE prod would only use 80% of the possibe STE power.
I personally would drop this 20% for sure to gain compatibility but some most probably won't do so.

My own contributions (if there are going to be any) will be developed on my Falcon so will naturally run on it too but ofcourse I cannot talk for others.

Actually it would be ok for me in this special case if the demo would not run on the Falcon because the name already says it is going to be an STE demo.

Title: Re: Falcon compatibility?
Post by RA_pdx on 21.03.09 at 09:15:44
I agree with you that it would be nice to see screens which are compatible with the Falcon/TT, but it shouldn´t be a must-have. Because if somebody want to use any sync or special STE tricks it would be really hard to make it compatible.

The real problem at the moment is that the planned intro/main menu isn´t Falcon/TT compatible. Okay i could code a special or simple one for the Falcon/TT, but at the moment i can´t say if i would have enough time for that. :-X An other simple alternative would be to access all screens also directly from the desktop without any menu.

Just my thoughts...

Title: Re: Falcon compatibility?
Post by simonsunnyboy on 21.03.09 at 09:29:50
The Nostalgic-O Demo by Leonard had an extra textbased screen selector besides its overscan mainmenu. Might be an option here too?

Title: Re: Falcon compatibility?
Post by CiH on 21.03.09 at 12:07:58
I'm not fussed if screens are not Falcon compatible. The decision should be up to the individual authors with perhaps a warning at the start if it is not. I'd prefer someone to go 100% for STe hardware tricks rather than have to feel they need to hold back.  :)

Title: Re: Falcon compatibility?
Post by ggn on 22.03.09 at 09:53:24
Well, TT compatibility can be tricky as the TT doesn't have a blitter! Even the Falcon could be tricky if sync tricks are used, such as overscan etc.

On hindsight, let's not try to restrict the coders into making compatible screens for lots of machines (that's for PC lamers anyway :P), but focus making screens that are a true homage to the machine!

Title: Re: Falcon compatibility?
Post by nerve on 23.03.09 at 14:41:21
I tend to agree that forced Falcon compatibility would be lame. Voluntary is another deal...

If the main menu is to run from HD (i sure hope so...) i would like to request MegaSTE support - which is basically, turn the cache off. I guess this is a pretty obvious feature tho...

-Kåre

Title: Re: Falcon compatibility?
Post by RA_pdx on 23.03.09 at 17:09:22
@simonsunnyboy

Quote:
The Nostalgic-O Demo by Leonard had an extra textbased screen selector besides its overscan mainmenu. Might be an option here too?

Yes, this might be a very good option if we will have enough time - what i hope.

@nerve:

Quote:
If the main menu is to run from HD (i sure hope so...) i would like to request MegaSTE support - which is basically, turn the cache off. I guess this is a pretty obvious feature tho...

MegaSTE support is a must-have - so we have this in our rules! ;)
HD support is definitely planned.

I also think Falcon/TT compatibility should be just a bonus but not really a precondition.

Title: Re: Falcon compatibility?
Post by JaceSTK on 23.03.09 at 17:47:55
Ste is Ste, time for a Falcon 20 demo will come  ;D

If, by the way, some work on it, we could make a simple menu to watch them. But it is really not the priority.

Title: Re: Falcon compatibility?
Post by Christos on 23.03.09 at 18:23:48
It would be better if we went for falcon 18. After all it's the coming of age year in most countries ;).
Anyway, I'd like to see falcon compatibility but not in the expense of ste specific stuff. SSB's idea is pretty cool.

Title: Re: Falcon compatibility?
Post by Dbug on 23.03.09 at 19:12:20
On the Creators screen for the 20th ST birthday demo I spent about as much time as getting the damn interrupt based raster code for the falcon/tt mode as it took to get the stf/ste overscan mode working.

In my case if I find the time to do something, it will definitely use fullscreen + blitter, and there's no way I waste even 5% of my time trying to be compatible with anything else than pure STE.

MegaSTe support on the other hand, yes, 100%, if only because doing some STe code that does not work on MegaSTE is just showing lazy coding practices. (and a significant number of people dropped their STE in favor of MegaSTE just because it was practical to have with the high density drive and built in hdd).




Title: Re: Falcon compatibility?
Post by Zweckform2 on 23.03.09 at 20:47:40
Cutting down demos for compatibility ? Whats next ? 4mb demos ?  :o

Title: Re: Falcon compatibility?
Post by simonsunnyboy on 23.03.09 at 21:05:30
Actually quite a few people proposed that for future STE productions.

And IIRC for this tribute Megademo as well....

Title: Re: Falcon compatibility?
Post by zwf_pdx on 23.03.09 at 21:54:46
4mb demos are cool if they look like they use 16mb  8-)

Title: Re: Falcon compatibility?
Post by tobe on 24.03.09 at 12:30:27
Some effects are just impossible on Falcon, and it's not just a question of writing some specific routs, you'll have to rewrite the screen.
About the MegaSTE, just turning the cache off doesn't really emulate a STE, for example, the blitter starting delay is different on STE and MegaSTE and it can be a problem.

Title: Re: Falcon compatibility?
Post by nerve on 24.03.09 at 13:49:09

tobe wrote on 24.03.09 at 12:30:27:
About the MegaSTE, just turning the cache off doesn't really emulate a STE, for example, the blitter starting delay is different on STE and MegaSTE and it can be a problem.  


I had no idea! Thanks for the info. I supppose extensive testing is required then. Sounds like a job for CJ ;)

Title: Re: Falcon compatibility?
Post by RA_pdx on 24.03.09 at 14:50:40

tobe wrote on 24.03.09 at 12:30:27:
About the MegaSTE, just turning the cache off doesn't really emulate a STE, for example, the blitter starting delay is different on STE and MegaSTE and it can be a problem.


Yes, there is a delay of 4 cycles on the MegaSTE. So if someone uses the Blitter in synced code like fullscreen there are needed two different routines for 1040STE and MegaSTE.

As far as i know this is the only exception if the cache has been turned off the and the CPU slowed down to 8 mhz.

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