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Old/Deprecated stuff >> The 20 years STE anniversary demo >> Screens' Post mortem!
https://d-bug.mooo.com/dbugforums/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1259340918

Message started by ggn on 27.11.09 at 16:55:18

Title: Re: Screens' Post mortem!
Post by ggn on 02.01.10 at 23:35:44
And here comes some of the dialogue Per and I had during the production of the screen. Timestamps are GMT+2. I chopped some of the dialogue because it was either off topic, or emowank :). The links left should work, so you you should be able to leech the previews of the individual screens too

Tuesday

--- Log opened Tue Nov 24 11:43:46 2009
11:43 -!- Irssi: Starting query in IRCnet with XiA
11:43 <XiA> Were you thinking of any particular style of music, or perhaps even a cover (those are easier to make)
11:44 <ggn> well, yesterday I had a weird thought
11:44 <XiA> Weird is good 8-)
11:44 <ggn> use tchaikovsky's 1812 overture
11:44 <ggn> as a big sample
11:44 <ggn> and flip through the screens synced with the cymbals
11:44 <XiA> That. Is. So. Cool
11:44 <ggn> but I don't think I can fit a 1 min sample in there :)
11:45 <XiA> Might be a LIIIIITTLE tight 8-)
11:45 <ggn> yeah I have like 4 screens leftover from =<10 years and I thought I'd throw them all in there
11:45 <ggn> yeah
11:45 <ggn> well you could use a cymbal sample in mym :)
11:45 <XiA> Exactly my thoughtg
11:46 <ggn> and well, the screens are a bit standard fare
11:46 <ggn> so I thought 1 min of them should be enough :)
11:46 <ggn> I can send you some prgs to check out
11:46 <XiA> However, if we trigger the cymbal sample outside of mym (using the sync command in mym), you could have it ADPCM:ed 8-)
11:46 <ggn> hehe
11:47 <ggn> does mym have a space restriction for samples?
11:47 <XiA> Yup, 32K each, max 8 in all
11:47 <ggn> aha
11:47 <XiA> Not that a cymbal can't be good in 32K, but it feels like a bit of waste I guess 8-)
11:47 <ggn> so, are you feeling up to it?
11:47 <ggn> yeah I get your point
11:47 <XiA> Listening to it now
11:47 <XiA> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1812_Overture
11:47 <ggn> last minute
11:48 <ggn> I mean the song's last minute
11:48 <ggn> and yes, that's the version I was thinking of using
11:48 <XiA> Near the bottom of the page are two samples, I'm listening to the top one
11:49 <XiA> So we're talking about the block starting at 15:35
11:49 <ggn> yep
11:49 <XiA> Ending at 15:47 or so
11:50 <XiA> Just that short bit is no problem to have looping tho
11:50 <ggn> oh sec
11:50 <ggn> need to check the timestamps :)
11:51 <ggn> yep, from 15:35, but goes all the way to the end
11:52 <ggn> I like it that the cymbals are happening irregurrarly
11:52 <ggn> you can do all kinds of weird sync shit with those :)
11:53 <XiA> So true
11:53 <XiA> So we're talking basically a one-minute demo
11:54 <XiA> God DAMN that ending is annoying 8-)
11:55 <XiA> It's almost like that Dudley Moore piano concerto thing, that's like endings stapled on top of each other for 40 seconds 8-)
11:55 <ggn> haha
11:56 <XiA> Checking the organ version, maybe that will give better clues to how to make a YM version
11:56 <XiA> Ah, crap, that's just a short section
11:56 <XiA> Let's see what Spotify has...
11:58 <XiA> Hehe, the Rhapsody In Rock version is pretty cool 8-)
11:59 <XiA> It'd be cool to do this, but I think I'd like to make the ending just a little less annoying if that's ok with you 8-)
12:00 <XiA> The big question is when you need it. Yesterday? 8-)
12:02 <ggn> ooops sorry was away for a bit
12:02 <ggn> as for creative freedom, I'm all up for it :)
12:03 <ggn> when I need it?
12:03 <ggn> hmm
12:03 <ggn> I guess I want so spend a couple days with the syncing
12:03 <ggn> so seeing that the deadline is monday, saturday latest?
12:04 <XiA> That's very generous of you. I'll try to have it done sooner
12:04 <XiA> Thinking about how fast I could have a quick sketch for you, so you could add it to see the "cymbal switching" in action.
12:04 <ggn> hey, I'm the one that's supposed to say that, since you're working and all :)
12:05 <XiA> I'm guessing we should add sync commands on all cymbal hits, so you could just poll those?
12:05 <ggn> let me gather the screens for you
12:05 <ggn> would be great
12:06 <XiA> I'm guessing the music would take 6-7% cpu, depending on if the optimized player gwEm gave Dbug for his demo can also play samples. If not you can just trigger those on the sync code I guess
12:07 <ggn> http://users.hol.gr/~ggn/LEO.PRG
12:07 <ggn> that's one
12:10 <ggn> http://users.hol.gr/~ggn/PARALLAX.PRG
12:10 <XiA> Let's see, how the hell do I make Firefox save these instead of displaying them...
12:11 <XiA> THere we go
12:12 <ggn> sorry for the stupid ISP hosting
12:13 <ggn> http://users.hol.gr/~ggn/FAERY_AP.PRG (use 4mb, as I have a hadrcoded screen address :))
12:15 <ggn> http://users.hol.gr/~ggn/FAERY_FX.PRG
12:15 <ggn> that's all I got I think
12:16 <ggn> not so good on their own, but I think I can fill about 1 min with some syncing between them :)
12:18 <XiA> For some reason that last one won't download
12:21 <ggn> hm
12:21 <ggn> yes
12:21 <ggn> wrong filename :
12:21 <ggn> :)
12:21 <XiA> *hpew*
12:22 <XiA> *phew*, even
12:22 <ggn> http://users.hol.gr/~ggn/FAERYFX.PRG
12:24 <XiA> This is really cool stuff
12:24 <ggn> thanks
12:24 <XiA> How far away is that blitter mask transition bit from being able to run full framerate?
12:24 <ggn> I didn't get that?
12:25 <XiA> It's not always full framerate, it seems, would it be possible to get it to run full framerate?
12:25 <ggn> hm, which effect isn't full framerate to you?
12:25 <ggn> I coded them all on a ste, never noticed any slowdowns
12:25 <ggn> ah, the transitions you mean
12:25  * ggn stupid
12:26 <ggn> dunno, the transitions are software only
12:26 <ggn> and very cpu intensive
12:26 <XiA> Ah! Then they could prolly be full framerate using the blitter 8-)
12:26 <ggn> I have a blitter version running at 25fps using halftones
12:26 <ggn> but then I don't have that flexibility
12:27 <ggn> because every 16x16 block has the same mask
12:27 <XiA> Yeah, you'd have to rewrite the blitter halftone mask
12:27 <ggn> while with this version every block can have an individual mask
12:27 <ggn> yeah and I don't think that'll be too quick
12:27 <XiA> MAN how much better it would be if the blitter would just use a pointer instead of us having to force data into it
12:27 <ggn> well I don't think I'll include the transitions
12:28 <XiA> Typical Atari solution.
12:28 <ggn> oh well :)
12:28 <XiA> It would be a nice effect to start and end with tho
12:28 <ggn> hmm
12:28 <XiA> Some of the transitions are very pretty
12:28 <ggn> well I can pick a specific fx and optimise it
12:28 <ggn> the routine is very generic
12:28 <XiA> Cool
12:29 <ggn> and btw, I know the gfx are hideous, but the gfx artist I was counting on is awol :)
12:29 <ggn> so I hope that with quick flip through the fx it won't look too bad :P
12:30 <XiA> 8-)
12:30 <ggn> I'll try to make better palettes too
--- Log closed Tue Nov 24 12:35:57 2009
--- Log opened Tue Nov 24 12:45:59 2009
12:45 <XiA> Technical question.
12:46 <XiA> The sync flag is a value that I can set on different rows. Thing is, when I set it, it STAYS set, so if you trigger the sample of off it, it will re-trigger quite a bit 8-)
12:47 <XiA> What I normally would do is to trigger the sample if the sync byte is CHANGED, *except* if it's changed to 0, that way I can just set it to 01, then back to 00 the next row, but if you have another suggestion, I'm all ears!
--- Log closed Tue Nov 24 12:52:57 2009
--- Log opened Tue Nov 24 13:24:27 2009
13:24 <ggn> sorry, was afk again
13:25 <ggn> well
13:25 <ggn> you can keep the sync state somewhere in the code
13:25 <ggn> and when you detect change, then trigger the sample?
13:25 <XiA> Exactly
13:25 <XiA> It's exposed at I think offset $80 into the .SND file
13:26 <XiA> Lemme look it up. I have a test song for you to play with
13:26 <ggn> thanks, I'll begin putting all the screens together in the afternoon
13:27 <XiA> Nope, offset $b8 it is
13:27 <XiA> Can I DCC you the file?
13:27 <ggn> haven't used that for ages
13:27 <ggn> can't hurt to try
13:27 <XiA> We'll try 8-)
13:27 <ggn> it works with other people
[...]
13:27 <XiA> Looks to have worked fine
13:28 <ggn> yeah
13:28 <XiA> Whatever you do don't LISTEN to this, but at least it gives sync bytes (using the 01 for trigger, then 00)
[...]
13:28 <ggn> haha, too late :P
13:29 <XiA> What I meant is you should trigger when it changes FROM a 00 to something else, but not when it changes TO a 00
13:29 <ggn> yeh
13:29 <ggn> rising edge as it's called in electronics :)
13:29 <XiA> (two projects in head at once, lol)
13:29 <XiA> ExACTly!
13:30 <XiA> Since it's a whole byte, we could even use it to trigger WHICH screen to jump to, or other things 8-)
13:30 <ggn> yeah that's what I had in mind too :)
13:31 <XiA> Problem is, if you edit the file, and I make changes here, we'll have a revision problem... Maybe that scripting should be left to your code 8-)
13:31 <XiA> Could be an interesting sort of random demo 8-)
13:32 <ggn> well a script list in the code will give me more flexibility
13:32 <ggn> hehe
13:32 <XiA> Exactly
[...]
--- Log closed Tue Nov 24 13:39:57 2009
--- Log opened Tue Nov 24 20:02:32 2009
20:02 <XiA> An idea strikes me... If you're around?
20:03 <XiA> ...but then yet ANOTHER idea strikes me, meaning I don't necessarily HAVE to discuss it with you, I can do some preliminary testing here without disturbing you 8-)
20:03 <XiA> Go back to what you were doing 8-)
--- Log closed Tue Nov 24 20:08:58 2009
--- Log opened Tue Nov 24 20:23:56 2009
20:23 <ggn> yep I'm here
20:24 <ggn> oh ok
--- Log closed Tue Nov 24 20:29:58 2009
--- Log opened Tue Nov 24 20:33:25 2009
20:33 <XiA> I was thinking about methods of having different volumes for the cymbal hits, but then I realized I can control the LMC from within mym 8-)
[...]
20:38 <XiA> Damn, this orchestral cymbal sounds pretty fucking good in mym, at least in STeem and the EEE's speakers
20:38 <ggn> good enough for me :P
[...]
21:02 <XiA> New version of the 1812 coming up, just need you to listen (to the music this time) and see if you think it works. It's kind of hard to translate a full orchestra to 3 channels of square wave + a 26K sample 8-)
[...]
21:02 <ggn> hehe
21:03 <ggn> I will in a bit
21:03 <XiA> np, take your time
21:03 <XiA> I'm a little surprised at how NOT annoying the cymbal is, considering it's played quite a lot 8-)
21:04 <ggn> hah
21:04 <ggn> tchaikovsky ftw :(
21:04 <ggn> oops
21:04 <ggn> :)
21:04 <XiA> Amazing guy
--- Log closed Tue Nov 24 21:09:59 2009
--- Log opened Tue Nov 24 21:23:56 2009
21:23 <ggn> just heard it :)
21:24 <XiA> Do you think it works?
21:24 <ggn> you mean the sample?
21:24 <XiA> The arrangement, those bars that are in it so far
21:24 <XiA> The whole thing, as short as it is
21:24 <ggn> yep
21:25 <ggn> my only worry is the tempo
21:25 <XiA> You want it faster?
21:25 <ggn> slower maybe
21:25 <ggn> well
21:25 <ggn> I don't have to change parts with each cybmal hit
21:25 <XiA> Personally, I'm leaning towards faster 8-) But let's not make that decision until you've seen it switching screen, maybe it will be epileptic enough 8-)
21:26 <ggn> yeah
21:26 <XiA> It's FAIRLY easy to change the tempo later, even if we do a "dithered" tempo
21:27 <ggn> also, a slow 10 secs intro without any cymbals, just to print some text or someting would be nice
21:27 <XiA> Yeah, I was thinking about that earlier too, shouldn't be a big problem!
21:27 <ggn> for showing maybe a fade effect
21:29 <XiA> Yeah, that's a good idea
--- Log closed Tue Nov 24 21:34:59 2009
--- Log opened Tue Nov 24 21:36:19 2009
21:36 <ggn> just killing the mallocs so I can try it on the scroller :)
21:38 <XiA> How many sprites in total are there in that screen?
21:38 <XiA> Are they sprites all the time, or do they go into some buffer when they end up in the scroller?
21:39 <ggn> yep, once it reaches the scroller, it's just a part of it
21:39 <ggn> so it's the full character set
21:39 <XiA> Very original, very clever.
21:39 <ggn> plus 32 sprites flying to the top right
21:39 <XiA> blitter sprites?
21:40 <ggn> yep
21:40 <ggn> of course i should have gone with software sprites
21:40 <ggn> but I only knew blitter back then
21:40 <XiA> Why's that? Don't you gain speed with the blitter?
21:41 <ggn> well, the original screen idea was to have h-disting of the whole screen
21:41 <XiA> *yay* 8-)
21:42 <ggn> still got the code for that
21:42 <ggn> but I don't think there's time to change the screen now
[...]
--- Log closed Tue Nov 24 22:04:59 2009
--- Log opened Tue Nov 24 22:17:24 2009
22:17 <ggn> neat, the tune plays flawlessly with the scroller part
22:18 <XiA> That's nice! It uses about 6% CPU, according to gwEm's SNDH_CPU tool
22:22 <XiA> In my experience, it shouldn't ever go past 7%, since it doesn't use timers, and maybe with the optimized player it will be a little faster, but not all that much
--- Log closed Tue Nov 24 22:27:59 2009
--- Log opened Tue Nov 24 22:32:44 2009
22:32 <ggn> woohoo it works with the parallax thinghy screen :)
--- Log closed Tue Nov 24 22:37:59 2009
--- Log opened Tue Nov 24 23:31:39 2009
23:31 <XiA> One WIN after another 8-)
--- Log closed Tue Nov 24 23:36:59 2009

Wednesday

--- Log opened Wed Nov 25 10:14:41 2009
10:14 -!- XiA [~me@c83-254-144-228.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [""]
--- Log closed Wed Nov 25 10:20:02 2009
--- Log opened Wed Nov 25 21:46:32 2009
[...]
21:47 -!- Irssi: Starting query in IRCnet with XiA
21:47 <XiA> New version, now with intro and some more dynamics in the cymbals. Hopefully you'll have a complete version tomorrow.
21:47 <XiA> (DCC:ed)
--- Log closed Wed Nov 25 21:53:04 2009
--- Log opened Wed Nov 25 23:12:29 2009
23:12 <ggn> *got*
23:14 <ggn> didn't work at all on the screen today... been busy/lazy :/
--- Log closed Wed Nov 25 23:20:05 2009
--- Log opened Wed Nov 25 23:37:31 2009
23:37 <ggn> the start now reminds like a band tuning their instruments - I like :)
23:38 <XiA> It's actually the wikipedia version, starting at around 15:20 or so 8-)
23:38 <ggn> oh ok :)
23:38 <ggn> does the original version hit the cymbals so often?
23:39 <XiA> Hell yeah 8-)
23:39 <ggn> I'm getting used to the fast pace
23:39 <ggn> I'll use the tangram letters a lot
23:40 <ggn> it's a fast effect after all
23:41 <ggn> how do you feel about the concept? you think it'll work?
23:42 <ggn> I can also change the zoom factor of the letters, should look better
23:42 <ggn> oh well, pardon my ramblings
23:43 <XiA> I think this will be really crazy and fun 8-)
23:43 <XiA> (installing new laptop for wife, semi-here, semi-there 8-)  )
23:43 <ggn> np :)
23:44 <ggn> <more moan>why the FUCK do I get all the good ideas just some days of hours before the deadline? why? WHY???
23:44 <ggn> </more moan>
23:45 <XiA> 8-) Poor you
23:45 <XiA> Just be lucky you HAVE ideas 8-)
23:46 <ggn> yup, but I always miss the parties because I have to code them last minute :)
23:47 <XiA> 8-) You need a slave coder that can do the ground work for you, so you can just sit there and think up ideas 8-)
[...]
--- Log closed Thu Nov 26 00:11:05 2009

Thursday

--- Log opened Thu Nov 26 00:54:43 2009
00:54 -!- XiA [~me@c83-254-144-228.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout]
--- Log closed Thu Nov 26 01:00:05 2009
--- Log opened Thu Nov 26 23:13:05 2009
[...]
23:13 -!- Irssi: Starting query in IRCnet with XiA
23:13 <XiA> The tune is 52 seconds now, but we could easily make it a bit longer by simply doubling the first section if you feel you need it
23:14 <ggn> just heard it
23:14 <ggn> it's supercool :)
23:15 <XiA> Yeah, it's pretty fucking crazy 8-)
23:15 <ggn> well, that's my point of view when coding
23:15 <ggn> use old ideas, with a slightly different way
23:15 <XiA> Weirdest thing I've done on the ST, and with those effects, this demo could be really wicked 8-)
23:15 <ggn> glad I have your vote of confidence :)
23:16 <ggn> tomorrow I'll spend all day on it
23:16 <ggn> no rasters, no fullscreen, just hard sync
23:16 <XiA> I thought the prg's you sent me were great, and combined with the constant screen switching, those that don't die from epileptic attacks will feel like they've been run over by a truck 8-)
23:16 <ggn> STE IN YOUR FACE :)
23:16 <XiA> Exactly 8-)
[...]
23:28 <XiA> Now for the scary part, testing the song for CPU usage... Let me know if you need the optimized player, it could save you some RAM
23:30 <ggn> hehe
23:30 <XiA> Ok, it maxes out at 7% with the standard player, I hope that's not a problem for your code
23:30 <ggn> don't think it is
23:31 <ggn> does it consume more than the previous versions?
23:31 <XiA> The previous never spiked at 7% if I remember correctly, but a difference of 1% in SNDH_CPU isn't super reliable, it might be just a few cycles
23:32 <ggn> ok, we should be fine then
23:32 <ggn> will tell you tomorrow ;)
23:32 <XiA> Let's hope it works, if it doesn't well try the optimized player he gave Dbug for his demo
23:32 <ggn> okey
23:33 <XiA> Cool, looking forward to seeing the demo when it's done 8-)
[...]
23:39 <ggn> back in a bit
--- Log closed Thu Nov 26 23:45:11 2009

Friday

--- Log opened Fri Nov 27 11:42:11 2009
11:42 <XiA> If you need any other help to finish the screen in time, please let me know, I'm available all day, as it seems. Maybe a start screen? Logo?
11:43 <ggn> I already asked ukko to draw a start screen
11:43 <XiA> Ah, great!
11:43 <ggn> as for logo, I dunno yet - if you have any ideas, you're free to draw one :)
11:43 <XiA> What's the name of the production?
11:44 <ggn> umm
11:44 <ggn> I thought I was going to call it "the drawer"
11:44 <ggn> how's that sound?
11:44 <ggn> or "the vault"
11:44 <XiA> As in the furniture?
11:44 <ggn> something that shows that this is old code I'm getting rid of :)
11:45 <XiA> "20 years of code in under a minute of demo"
11:45 <ggn> yeah, that sounds nice too :)
11:45 <XiA> "20 years condensed into a minute" 8-)
11:45 <XiA> "20 years of work, and all I could make was a one-minute demo" 8-)
11:46 <XiA> "Two decades - One minute"
11:46 <XiA> Getting shorter 8-)
11:46 <ggn> abstraction :)
11:46 <XiA> Yup
11:46 <ggn> 20 years - 60 secs
11:47 <XiA> Better make sure it's EXACTLY 60 seconds long then 8-)
11:47 <XiA> Maybe that's too silly?
11:47 <XiA> It's your demo, it's your choice 8-)
11:48 <ggn> how long is your tune?
11:48 <XiA> Around 52 seconds
11:48 <ggn> can pad 8 seconds with an end screen then
11:49 <ggn> I think I counted 54 here
11:49 <ggn> can you remind me again where's the sync byte at?
11:53 <XiA> @b8
11:53 <XiA> $b8
11:53 <ggn> thanks
11:54 <XiA> I could pad the music out to exactly 60 secs to if you wnat
11:54 <XiA> want*
11:59 <ggn> yeah it would be nice
--- Log closed Fri Nov 27 12:05:14 2009
--- Log opened Fri Nov 27 12:06:38 2009
12:06 <ggn> woohoo, I merged the scroller with the rest of the parts in a single source :)
12:06 <ggn> I only need to make that re-entrant now
12:06 <ggn> (the main loop)
12:07 <ggn> (already fixed the bit where it assumed the screen to be at multiples of $10000)
12:07 <XiA> *yay*
12:07 <ggn> music works ok with that too
12:08 <ggn> anyway, I must take a break now - mum wants to go shopping
12:08 <ggn> but I'm REALLY pumped up now :)
12:08 <ggn> my hands tremble from excitement :)
12:09 <ggn> at least it's not going to be a boring screen
12:10 <ggn> and btw if you want to write some words on the scrolltext, feel free to
12:10 <ggn> dunno how much I can show there though ;)
12:10 <XiA> Cool, thanks
12:10 <ggn> anyway, back in an hour or so
12:10 <XiA> Later
--- Log closed Fri Nov 27 12:16:14 2009
--- Log opened Fri Nov 27 12:48:25 2009
[...]
12:48 <XiA> New version, pretty exactly 1:02 long, hope that's ok. To my ears, this longer version is better, makes more sense.
12:52 <XiA> Adjusted the volume levels between the DMA and YM sound too, had forgotten to do that before
--- Log closed Fri Nov 27 12:58:14 2009
--- Log opened Fri Nov 27 13:16:18 2009
13:16 <ggn> will check now, thanks :)
13:19 <ggn> it's excellent
13:20 <ggn> and I don't think anyone will count it with a stopwatch :P
13:20 <XiA> Nah 8-)
--- Log closed Fri Nov 27 13:26:14 2009
--- Log opened Fri Nov 27 16:13:20 2009
16:13 <ggn> man, if the silents hadn't used that name already, I'd name it "hardwired demo" ;)
16:13 <XiA> 8-)
--- Log closed Fri Nov 27 16:19:15 2009
--- Log opened Fri Nov 27 16:44:20 2009
16:44 <ggn> okay, *finally* managed to make the scroller re-entrant *phew*
16:44 <ggn> small break to cool my mind now :)
--- Log closed Fri Nov 27 16:50:15 2009
[...]
--- Log opened Fri Nov 27 19:24:26 2009
19:24 <ggn> don't worry about titles, I still have lots of stuff I either haven't coded or in the drawer :)
19:24 <XiA> 8-)
--- Log closed Fri Nov 27 19:30:16 2009
--- Log opened Fri Nov 27 21:43:38 2009
21:43 <XiA> How's it going? Don't hesitate to send over a preview, if it's not too much extra work, I'm really curious 8-)
21:43 <ggn> well it's all coming together slowly
21:44 <ggn> can't send you anything concrete atm
21:44 <XiA> That's ok.
--- Log closed Fri Nov 27 21:50:16 2009
--- Log opened Fri Nov 27 21:59:58 2009
21:59 <ggn> ah, a film on tv played the overture :)
22:03 <XiA> LOL!
22:03 <XiA> I have it on my mind too. I especially like the middle bit, between the "theme bit" that everyone knows and the end, very cleverly written. I'm a little worried I might have a note or two wrong in that passage, but it sounds ok to me anyway
22:04 <ggn> well, only classic music buffs will notice
22:04 <ggn> and who gives a crap about them? :)
22:04 <XiA> Exactly, fuck 'em 8-)
--- Log closed Fri Nov 27 22:10:16 2009
--- Log opened Fri Nov 27 23:18:52 2009
23:18 <ggn> phew
23:19 <ggn> I'm startin to get the hand of my own code :P
23:20 <XiA> 8-) Busy day, huh?
23:20 <ggn> yeah :)
23:20 <ggn> I wrote this code back in 99 and 2001-02
23:21 <XiA> Hehe, that's like ten years 8-)
23:21 <ggn> yup
23:21 <XiA> Have you been coding 68K continually since then, or have you had down periods too?
--- Log closed Fri Nov 27 23:27:17 2009

Saturday

--- Log opened Sat Nov 28 13:17:46 2009
13:17 <ggn> btw, I turned on the web server from opera, so you can have a peek in the source folder if you like
[...]
13:18 <XiA> Haha, clever!!
13:18 <XiA> I can even DOWNLOAD files, that's pretty damn nice!
13:18 <XiA> I could make a remix of the demo 8-)
13:19 <ggn> yup :)
13:19 <ggn> I counted 57 sync points
13:19 <XiA> Yeah, that sounds about right.
13:20 <ggn> just coded the positive edge detect thingy
13:20 <ggn> ukko gave me a preview of his pic btw
13:20 <ggn> pic8.png
13:20 <XiA> "positive edge detect"? Are you making cel shading? 8-)
13:21 <XiA> Holy shit, that's one good looking picture!
13:21 <ggn> I assure you I know squat about 3d
13:21 <ggn> so I must be either talking electronics or the gwem driver :D
[...]
13:21 <XiA> Ah, right, the sync byte trigger 8-)
[...]
13:28 <XiA> It's unfair for us musicians, it's often not many hours work to throw together a song, but for a graphics artist, no matter how good and fast you are, you can rarely make anything god in less than a couple of hours
13:28 <XiA> I mean musicians have it easy 8-)
13:29 <ggn> hehe
13:30 <ggn> coders have it easy too
13:30 <ggn> hide bugs behind other stuff :)
13:30 <ggn> with a 50fps framerate, who can observe every little detail on screen? :)
13:31 <XiA> Well, sometimes it goes that way, other times you end up spending 15 hours on something that's on the screen for less than a second 8-)
13:31 <ggn> like in my case :)
13:31 <ggn> well, 60 seconds
13:31 <XiA> Especially in this demo
--- Log closed Sat Nov 28 13:37:20 2009
--- Log opened Sat Nov 28 13:42:24 2009
13:42 <XiA> Is everything going to plan?
13:43 <ggn> well I'm just testing that I can call every part at every given change
13:43 <ggn> after that it's just timing & resources
13:44 <XiA> Cool! *pats back*
13:44 <XiA> Lemme know if there's anything else I can help out with
13:44 <ggn> okay
13:48 <ggn> hmm
13:48 <ggn> the parallax part has to know beforehand how many vbls it's going to run
13:48 <ggn> have to make a delta table then
13:49 <XiA> There have been a couple of times when I wish had knew the data format for maxYMiser files, so I could do stuff like that in preprocessing
13:49 <ggn> yeah it would be handy
13:49 <ggn> maybe gwem can release the pattern format
13:50 <ggn> anyway, since my current main loop code is vbl-count based, a table is the easiest way out
13:51 <XiA> I've been asking him about exposing inner data, so we could do stuff like loop a songposition over and over until for example a disk loading sequence is over
13:52 <ggn> well, do you have the source for the optimised player?
13:52 <ggn> or just a binary file?
13:52 <XiA> Sorry, just a binary
13:53 <ggn> ah ok
[...]
--- Log closed Sat Nov 28 13:59:21 2009
--- Log opened Sat Nov 28 14:07:08 2009
14:07 <ggn> well it's that time in the development process again...
14:07 <ggn> this doesn't look good...
14:07 <ggn> it's going to suck...
14:07 <ggn> is there any point continuing this?....
14:07 <XiA> 8-) Of course there is
14:07 <XiA> I think it's going to be fun
14:08 <ggn> fortunately I know that feeling now and I can say to it "shut the hell up" :)
14:08 <XiA> I giggle just thinking about it 8-)
14:08 <ggn> hehe
14:08 <ggn> okay, the pic fader is going to run at double speed
14:08 <XiA> This is an even fresher idea than Dbug's IRC screen, I can't recall having seen anything like this before
14:08 <ggn> as it's not going to do cross-fading
14:09 <ggn> I think I've seen an irc screen before
14:09 <ggn> but that's no problem it's original
14:09 <XiA> On the ST?
14:09 <ggn> yeah, I *think* so at least
--- Log closed Sat Nov 28 14:15:21 2009
--- Log opened Sat Nov 28 14:24:52 2009
14:24 <ggn> I can't decide which appear fx to put
14:24 <ggn> so I'll include them all
14:25 <ggn> I got some space left!
14:25 <XiA> *yay*
14:25 <ggn> right now the prg is 150k unpacked
14:25 <ggn> including debugging symbols :)
14:25 <XiA> UNpacked?!?!?!?
14:25 <XiA> But the music alone is like 70K?
14:26 <ggn> yep it is
14:26 <XiA> What you need is a .MOD mate 8-)
14:26 <ggn> haha
14:26 <XiA> What does it end up with UPX then?
14:26 <ggn> let's see
14:26 <ggn> 52k
14:26 <XiA> LOL
14:27 <ggn> but that's not including ukko's pic then
14:27 <XiA> Could prolly shave 5-10K off it by using the non-editor version of the song
14:27 <XiA> How's it going to end? Might aswell include a "the end" picture too
14:28 <ggn> I was thikning
14:28 <ggn> put our names in the end
14:28 <ggn> flash them with hits
14:28 <XiA> Good idea
14:28 <ggn> and put an atari ste logo there
14:29 <ggn> like the end of fr-08
14:29 <ggn> only crappier :)
14:29 <XiA> Nono, more "old-school" 8-)
14:29 <XiA> That's what we call it when we do stuff badly 8-)
14:29 <ggn> what's more old school than flashing some pics :)
14:30 <XiA> That's all I ever do in my demos, people call it new-school anyway 8-)
14:30 <ggn> oh shit :P
14:30 <ggn> I can flash the floppy led drive :P
14:30 <ggn> now THAT's oldschool :)
14:30 <XiA> Good idea!
[...]
14:31 <ggn> so can you rip/draw an atari fuji logo with "atari ste" below it?
14:31 <ggn> absolutely not
14:32 <XiA> I have Atari's current, modernized logo as a vector file here, but it doesn't say "STE". But I could just draw in STE using some other font, making it a little more artsy. Do you need it in 3bpl?
14:32 <ggn> whatever meets your fancy
14:32 <ggn> hell, you can even throw in random noise at it
14:32 <ggn> so it won't compress at all
14:32 <ggn> and we're still prolly ok for space :)
14:33 <XiA> 4bpl would look better, so if you're not going to add anything on top...
14:33 <ggn> hmm
14:33 <ggn> how about that
14:33 <ggn> *ding*
14:33 <XiA> 8-) *awaits brilliant idea*
14:33 <ggn> ok, here's my idea
14:33 <ggn> let's say you draw it in 8 cols
14:34 <ggn> and you have another 7 to spare
14:34 <ggn> well, lets say 7+7 spare
14:34 <ggn> you use the other 7 cols to mirror the palette of the first 7
14:34 <XiA> I always make everything in 24-bit, then convert it down to whatever's needed 8-)
14:34 <XiA> Yup
14:35 <ggn> then you use a spray to paint over the other 7 cols
14:35 <ggn> so if we change the palette it'll look like random noise
14:35 <ggn> but if you set all cols to the same values it'll look like a solid image
14:35 <ggn> is any of this making sense? :)
14:35 <XiA> Will that really work?
14:35 <ggn> dunno :)
14:36 <ggn> let me do a quick test in crackart
14:36 <XiA> So 3bpl pic with 1bpl noise, basically?
14:36 <ggn> yeah
14:36 <ggn> kinda sounds lame eh?
14:36 <XiA> That would work, yeah
14:36 <ggn> oh
14:36 <XiA> If you flash it fast enough it'll look good, I think
14:37 <ggn> my idea is start showing the pic from white, and gradually mess the palette so you introduce the noise
14:37 <XiA> Yup
14:37 <ggn> so in the end the whole pic will become a big noisy mess
14:38 <XiA> In a way I bet it'd be more effective to just have a 4bpl-pic and plot shitloads of random pixels on top of it
14:38 <ggn> maybe
14:39 <ggn> something like that popped into my mind
14:39 <XiA> I don't think it'll look good to slowly fade to a 1bpl noise pic, but if we had like 4 or 5 1bpl noise pics... That could work
14:39 <ggn> just haven't figured out the best way to implement it yet :)
14:39 <XiA> Generating those at run time is no biggie
14:39 <ggn> yeah,just use the prg code :)
14:40 <XiA> Ok, so I'll just make a 3bpl logo then. Thank god for something else to do than fucking CSS troubles 8-)
14:41 <ggn> hehe
--- Log closed Sat Nov 28 14:46:21 2009
--- Log opened Sat Nov 28 15:09:56 2009
15:09 <ggn> ukko's pic in - 64356 bytes compressed
15:10 <XiA> Err... that's bigger than even an uncompressed Spectrum512?
15:10 <XiA> Oh, you mean the entire .PRG 8-9
15:10 <XiA> 8-)
--- Log closed Sat Nov 28 15:16:21 2009
--- Log opened Sat Nov 28 15:35:46 2009
15:35 <XiA> Would you prefer the STE logo on dark or light background, considering the rest of the demo?
15:37 <ggn> well let's make it whit
15:37 <ggn> break the monotony
15:38 <XiA> Okidokes!
--- Log closed Sat Nov 28 15:43:21 2009
--- Log opened Sat Nov 28 16:16:58 2009
16:16 <ggn> hahaha
16:17 <ggn> wanna get a very buggy version for some cheap laughs? :)
16:17 <XiA> Hell yeah 8-)
16:18 <XiA> I suspect the noise effect we were discussing for the STE logo might look better if the 3bpl-pic has noise over it too, don't you think?
16:19 <ggn> yes
16:19 <ggn> not sure how to implement that
16:19 <ggn> again with the 4th plane?
16:19 <ggn> and palette stuff?
[...]
16:20 <ggn> this is cool - I'm never going to upload another file to ftp for sharing :)
16:21 <XiA> I think I have a pretty clear idea on how to code it
16:23 <XiA> Hehe, some of the time that bugged out version actually looks pretty good 8-)
16:24 <ggn> yeah hehe
16:24 <ggn> I should keep that so we can release a remixed screen :)
16:24 <XiA> 8-)
16:26 <XiA> The more 1bpl noise screens you can create and use, the better... It would be a nice feature to create more such screens if the demo is run on a machine with more RAM 8-)
16:27 <XiA> More than 100 prolly won't make a difference tho
16:27 <XiA> (hehehe)
16:27 <ggn> :)
16:27 <XiA> Wonder how long it'll take to calculate a single one tho...
16:28 <XiA> I'm thinking you'll prolly want to plot at least 20000 pixels 8-(
16:28 <XiA> Well, maybe 15000 is enough, but prolly not much less
16:28 <XiA> (just guesstimating)
16:29 <ggn> well, plenty of stuff to do till that
16:29 <ggn> let's worry one thing at a time
16:29 <XiA> 8-)
16:30 <XiA> Sorry, just caught up in that part since I'm photoshopping the 3bpl pic now 8-)
16:30 <ggn> that's ok
16:31 <XiA> Damn, just a SINGLE percent change in the opacity of the noise layer makes a HUUUGE difference when I convert it to the STE palette 8-( This is a little tricky 8-)
--- Log closed Sat Nov 28 16:37:21 2009
--- Log opened Sat Nov 28 16:40:06 2009
[...]
16:40 <XiA> 3bpl logo
16:41 <ggn> ok
16:42 <XiA> It's not very imaginative, but I think it could look really cool with the flashing noise
16:43 <XiA> If you want, I could prepare a couple of palettes for it
16:43 <ggn> well if you don't have anything better to do :)
16:44 <XiA> I have lots of better things to do, but they're all boring, and I'd like to see this demo finished 8-)
16:44 <ggn> lol
16:46 <ggn> neat!
16:46 <ggn> that uses 7 cols?
16:49 <XiA> Yup
16:49 <XiA> Or, well, background + 7, so first 3 bpls
16:49 <ggn> coolio
--- Log closed Sat Nov 28 16:55:21 2009
--- Log opened Sat Nov 28 16:56:28 2009
[...]
16:56 <ggn> sync is random :)
[...]
17:00 <XiA> Is it supposed to change between different effects? It seems to just be the scroller, then something goes wrong with line offsets or something like that 8-)
17:00 <XiA> Sent you some palettes, I think you choosing randomly among them should be fine, if I'm thinking correctly about it
17:03 <ggn> will give it a go when I can
17:04 <ggn> oh?
17:04 <ggn> here it shows the pic, then the scroller
17:05 <XiA> Yeah, pic, then scroller
17:05 <XiA> then tilt 8-)
17:05 <ggn> ah
17:05 <ggn> haven't gone that far yet :)
17:06 <XiA> In that case it's all cool 8
17:06 <XiA> 8-)
--- Log closed Sat Nov 28 17:11:21 2009
--- Log opened Sat Nov 28 17:41:08 2009
17:41 <ggn> FUCK YEAH!
17:41 <XiA> 8-)
17:41 <XiA> Progress?
17:41 <ggn> changed from the scroller to the parallax screen
17:41 <ggn> only hscroll/linewid needs to be reset it seems
17:43 <XiA> Those are always messing stuff up 8-)
17:43 <ggn> yeah
[...]
17:43 <XiA> For a while during the first month of TalkTalk2 I thought I was fucking up bitplanes or something when I exited, and then I realized it was the hscroll not being restored 8-)
17:44 <ggn> it's funny how the fade in of the scroller background coincides with the first cymbal :)
17:44 <ggn> heh
17:44 <XiA> It's a coincidence?
17:44 <ggn> yes!
17:44 <XiA> LOL!
17:44 <XiA> I *love* it when stuff like that happens!
17:44 <ggn> also, bugaboo restores hscroll/linewid properly
17:44 <ggn> oh, you won't believe how lucky I am in syncing :)
17:44 <XiA> Ah, nice of it! I thought it was older than the STE
17:45 <ggn> well it was developed on a tt
17:45 <XiA> Ah, right, the TT came before the STE... How much longer before?
17:45 <ggn> don't have exact dates atm
17:45 <ggn> I think tt came out in 90
17:46 <ggn> btw, turboass still assembles a 6671 line source with a few incbins in under 2 secs
17:47 <XiA> Holy shit. It assembles in the background during editing, right?
17:47 <ggn> anyway, going to celebrate this with an afternoon snack (left over pasta, mmmmm)
17:47 <ggn> yes
17:47 <ggn> each time you change a line it assembles it
17:47 <ggn> anyway, be back in 10'
17:47 <XiA> Have a nice snack 8-)
17:48 <XiA> It seems the TT was actually released AFTER the STE, according to wikipedia. Still, developers might have had access to TT's before the STE anyway, who knows
--- Log closed Sat Nov 28 17:54:22 2009
--- Log opened Sat Nov 28 18:04:39 2009
18:04 <ggn> tts were huge in germany
[...]
18:28 <ggn> new pic version by ukko
--- Log closed Sat Nov 28 18:34:22 2009
--- Log opened Sat Nov 28 19:40:29 2009
19:40 <ggn> ok per, can I abuse your artistic talent once more?
19:41 <XiA> Sure, what do you need?
19:41 <ggn> well I had a thought about the logo for the main menu
19:42 <ggn> a stopwatch
19:42 <ggn> you know, counting to 60 secs
19:43 <XiA> So an animation?
19:43 <ggn> you think you could squeeze that in 256x38
19:43 <ggn> no
19:43 <ggn> the hand can be at a random radius
19:44 <XiA> There's a main menu, btw? Do I have to take a specific palette into account?
19:44 <ggn> yeah
19:44 <ggn> http://forum.dbug-automation.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1237842015
19:44 <ggn> and if you scroll to the bottom, he messed up one colour
19:46 <XiA> ah, right, for the main menu of the megademo
19:46 <XiA> Sorry, a little tired here 8-)
19:46 <XiA> Ok, so there are only three colors in the palette I *can't* change, all the others are "free to use"?
19:47 <ggn> yeah
19:47 <ggn> and, well, you don't have to :)
19:47 <XiA> When do you need it? Would it be ok if you get it tomorrow?
19:48 <ggn> no probs really
19:48 <ggn> it's for paradox' main menu
19:48 <XiA> Ok, cool, and you have no other thoughts than that it should contain a stopwatch? Any other info? Like group name, production name etc?
19:49 <ggn> well
19:49 <ggn> you could add 60"
19:49 <ggn> then
19:49 <XiA> 60 inches? 8-)
19:49 <XiA> My wife would be so happy. 8-)
19:49 <ggn> YES \o/
19:50 <ggn> then we could add our group's names
19:50 <ggn> KUA/XIA/LIVE!
19:50 <XiA> Need to spend time with her tonight, please mail me all info about it: [...]
19:50 <ggn> (U with an umlaut)
19:50 <ggn> ok mate
19:50 <ggn> have fun :)
19:50 <ggn> sorry to have hogged your free day :)
--- Log closed Sat Nov 28 19:56:22 2009
--- Log opened Sat Nov 28 23:04:31 2009
23:04 <ggn> [...] <- my gfx skills suck!
23:05 <XiA> Fucking nice image of a stopwatch tho
23:05 <XiA> I'll use it, if that's ok with you 8-)
23:06 <ggn> well, it's one of the first hit in google images
23:06 <ggn> so I don't really mind :)
23:06 <XiA> 8-)
23:06 <ggn> anyway, this can wait a bit
23:07 <ggn> I still don't know if any other artists will contribute a pic :)
23:07 <XiA> I'll start making one anyway (if we're still talking about the menu pic)
23:07 <ggn> yeah, that's the idea
23:08 <ggn> oh btw, the ? character is a U with umlaut
23:08 <XiA> Gotcha
23:08 <XiA> BTW, I can't make sense of that stuff in the thread about the palette
23:08 <ggn> hm
23:09 <ggn> let me read that
23:09 <XiA> Color 4 (the fifth color) should be AE0?
23:09 <XiA> Color 0 is 000, color 15 is FFF
23:09 <XiA> Is that how you understand it too?
23:09 <ggn> and btw, why are you not spending time with your wife? ;)
23:10 <XiA> She's 5 inches away from me, playing Farmville on her new wicked laptop 8-)
23:10 <ggn> hehe
23:10 <ggn> let's see
23:10 <ggn> col0=000
23:10 <ggn> col4=ae0
23:10 <ggn> col15=fff
23:10 <ggn> rest are user definable
23:11 <XiA> Good, then we'll just make them change it if that's not correct 8-)
23:11 <ggn> yeah
23:11 <ggn> remap in dpaint :)
23:12 <XiA> Yeah, no biggie
23:13 <XiA> I still have a problem with 60" - To my eyes, that's 60 inches, not 60 seconds
23:14 <ggn> hmm
23:14 <ggn> well
23:14 <ggn> any other way to symbolise it?
23:14 <XiA> Hehe, "from 0 to 20 in 60 seconds" 8-)
23:14 <ggn> maybe a mark on the watch at 60 secs?
23:15 <ggn> that could work too
23:15 <XiA> It's at 60 seconds, actually, but it's also at 0 8-)
23:15 <ggn> yes, that's ambiguous
23:16 <XiA> I'm thinking of making KάA bigger than Excellence In Art and Live!, after all, it's your production
23:16 <XiA> That makes sense, doesn't it?
23:16 <ggn> well, I'm shy :)
23:16 <XiA> I'll give it a go with "From 0 to 20 in 60 seconds", we can always change it later
23:16 <XiA> Or maybe "0-20: 60 seconds"
23:17 <ggn> sure
23:17 <ggn> whatever fits
23:17 <XiA> 8-)
--- Log closed Sat Nov 28 23:22:23 2009
--- Log opened Sat Nov 28 23:36:40 2009
23:36 <XiA> Time to hit the sack here, DCC:ing you a file first
[...]
23:36 <XiA> See you tomorrow! Sleep well!
23:37 <ggn> you too :)
23:38 <ggn> fuck, that's awesome!
--- Log closed Sat Nov 28 23:43:23 2009

Sunday

--- Log opened Sun Nov 29 10:15:51 2009
10:15 <XiA> Do you think the menu pic will work?
10:16 <XiA> (if you've seen it yet?)
10:17 <ggn> yep, definitely :)
10:18 <XiA> Ah, good
10:20 <ggn> btw havoc gave me a pic too
10:21 <XiA> Cool!
10:21 <ggn> so there's lineout in the group names now :)
10:21 <XiA> Damn 8-)
10:21 <XiA> Maybe the menu pic should just say "KάA feat. #atariscne" 8-)
[...]
10:22 <ggn> hehe
10:22 <ggn> I'll fade it in/out real quick when the screen starts
10:23 <XiA> LOL, that's beautiful
10:26 <ggn> if I had some more time spare, I'd put it up while the main program was depacked
10:26 <XiA> I think there's a point in having it up just a few frames
10:27 <ggn> yeah, right at the start
10:27 <ggn> even before the music starts
10:27 <ggn> sadly I don't precalculate anything :P
[...]
10:27 <XiA> That would be a good place, yeah
10:28 <ggn> :)
10:29 <XiA> I'll just make a .NEO of it too then?
10:29 <ggn> yup
[...]
--- Log closed Sun Nov 29 11:00:26 2009
--- Log opened Sun Nov 29 11:08:15 2009
11:08 <ggn> bahahahaha
11:08 <ggn> ;
11:08 <ggn> ; Here's the main loop of the Tangram effect
11:08 <ggn> ; Some things to be set up on entry:
11:08 <ggn> ;
11:08 <ggn> ; messagepointer.l should contain the message to be displayed (look at the
11:08 <ggn> ;                  example for more info)
11:08 <ggn> ; tangramstep.w should be -1 the first time you call the routine!
11:08 <ggn> ;
11:08 <ggn> ; Init these values, then call this routine every vbl (or whenever you like,
11:08 <ggn> ; I don't care :). Oh! Every letter takes 32 VBLs to show
11:08 <ggn> ;
11:08 <ggn> then I checked at the timings of the cymbals
11:08 <ggn>       DC.L      819,32,32,32,32,32,32,32,32,32
11:08 <ggn>       DC.L      32,32,32,32,32,32,32,32,32,32
11:08 <ggn>       DC.L      32,32,32,32,32,32,32,32,32,32
11:08 <ggn>       DC.L      32,32,16,128,128,128,128,132,50,16
11:08 <ggn>       DC.L      17,16,17,16,30,30,30,30,120,30
11:08 <ggn>       DC.L      15,15,30,15,15,30,31,90,0,0
--- Log closed Sun Nov 29 11:14:26 2009
--- Log opened Sun Nov 29 11:31:55 2009
11:31 <XiA> Nice 8-)
--- Log closed Sun Nov 29 11:37:26 2009
--- Log opened Sun Nov 29 11:43:05 2009
11:43 <ggn> 84k with havoc's pic in
11:43 <XiA> I see only one solution. Two copies of the file.
11:43 <ggn> I wish I could put a 60 secs sample in there :)
11:44 <ggn> maybe if I reduced tchaikovsky's original sample to 6.25khz/8 bits :)
11:44 <XiA> Maybe we should do a 4MB version later 8-)
11:44 <ggn> don't tempt me :P
11:45 <XiA> Are you implying there maybe better things to do? 8-)
[...]
11:58 <XiA> Anyway, how's the demo progressing?
[...]
11:58 <ggn> well, just wrote the code for the kabouter pic fade in/out
11:58 <XiA> (big difference)
11:58 <ggn> and I'm going for lunch
11:59 <ggn> and after lunch I'll start syncing stuff, assuming it all works
11:59 <ggn> (which I think it does)
11:59 <XiA> Can't wait to see it 8-)
11:59 <ggn> back in a bit :)
11:59 <XiA> As always, let me know if I can do anything to help, except bug you about how it's going and tell you how eager I am to see it 8-)
12:00 <XiA> Have a nice lunch, I'll prolly be out an hour or two to get me something to eat and run some errands. If you need me, e-mail to [...] - that's the e-mail to my cellphone
--- Log closed Sun Nov 29 12:06:26 2009
--- Log opened Sun Nov 29 13:01:51 2009
[...]
13:01 <ggn> noisy :)
13:04 <XiA> I think the noise looks ok!
13:05 <ggn> like I said
13:05 <XiA> It would look better with gaussian distributed noise... I could make a couple of noise screens, if you feel like wasting the diskspace 8-)
13:05 <ggn> I copy a code segment on that plane :)
13:05 <ggn> sure
13:05 <ggn> make a 16-col one
13:05 <ggn> and I'll copy bitplanes from it at random
13:06 <XiA> Would it be ok if I make 5-6 .NEO pictures using only color 0 and 1, I'm not sure how to combine it in a good way...
13:07 <XiA> Whatever's fastest for you, I want to waste as little of your time as possible
13:07 <ggn> sure, go ahead
13:08 <ggn> I'll extract the bitplanes
13:08 <XiA> Ok, back in a bit with some .NEO's
[...]
13:20 <ggn> I did an STE pattern last night for the parallax bit
13:20 <ggn> no other idea what to put there :)
13:20 <XiA> 8-)
--- Log closed Sun Nov 29 13:26:26 2009
--- Log opened Sun Nov 29 13:32:36 2009
[...]
13:32 <XiA> A dozen noise images 8-)
13:32 <ggn> ooh danke :)
[...]
13:33 <ggn> rofl sync
13:33 <ggn> I just slapped in some values at random :)
13:36 <XiA> I suspect the "sprites flying in and forming letters" is a bit too slow to actually work, what do you think?
13:39 <XiA> Don't you think Havoc's pic would be better as an ending, btw? Just flash it past after the music's gone and the STE-noise is done. Always good to end on a laugh.
13:39 <ggn> hmm
13:39 <ggn> why not
13:39 <XiA> Your decision of course, just a suggestion 8-)
13:39 <ggn> and about the tangram letters, I'll make the message smaller
13:39 <ggn> and maybe zoom the triangles
13:39 <XiA> It absolutely works in the beginning too, it would be more unexpected in the end 8-)
13:40 <XiA> Nice idea!
13:40 <XiA> So it IS tangram, I suspected it, but wasn't sure 8-)
13:40 <ggn> it's actually a 2-d poly filler
13:40 <ggn> I think I'll just make it write STE
13:40 <ggn> in big letters
13:40 <ggn> and outline it
13:42 <ggn> with all the noise bitplanes in, it's up to 140k now
13:43 -!- XiA [~me@c83-254-144-228.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout]
--- Log closed Sun Nov 29 13:49:26 2009
--- Log opened Sun Nov 29 14:48:40 2009
14:48 <ggn> okay, now play_music will execute an illegal when it reaches the amount of cymbal hits I want
14:48 <ggn> so the sync will be simplified :)
14:49 <XiA> 8-)
14:50 <ggn> that's the advantage of using a debugger
14:50 <ggn> you get it to crash or hit a breakpoint, and then you can poke around mem
14:50 <XiA> Yeah, that's clever as hell
14:50 <ggn> of course there's always steem debug
--- Log closed Sun Nov 29 14:56:27 2009
--- Log opened Sun Nov 29 15:03:20 2009
15:03 <ggn> first proper transition is in
15:04 <XiA> *yay*
15:05 <ggn> the only thing I'd like to do is to have a 2nd graphic for the parallax screen
15:05 <ggn> maybe I'll use the busy bee icon zoomed
15:06 <XiA> That's always nice!
15:06 <ggn> also, I'm out of ideas for a 1bpp graphic :)
--- Log closed Sun Nov 29 15:12:27 2009
--- Log opened Sun Nov 29 15:40:57 2009
15:40 <XiA> The menupic I sent your earlir had wrong palette, will make new one
15:41 <ggn> ok :)
--- Log closed Sun Nov 29 15:46:27 2009
--- Log opened Sun Nov 29 16:00:04 2009
16:00 <ggn> ooh
16:00 <ggn> the busy bee looks neat!
--- Log closed Sun Nov 29 16:05:27 2009
--- Log opened Sun Nov 29 17:34:39 2009
17:34 <XiA> Fixed menupix coming up....
[...]
--- Log closed Sun Nov 29 17:40:27 2009
--- Log opened Sun Nov 29 17:46:11 2009
17:46 <ggn> thanks
--- Log closed Sun Nov 29 17:51:27 2009
--- Log opened Sun Nov 29 18:04:24 2009
18:04 <ggn> phew
18:04 <ggn> AT LAST I fixed the outline thing
18:04 <ggn> I broke it for an hour :)
18:05 <ggn> btw, since it's one colour, can you suggest an rgb value for it?
18:05 <XiA> Ah, for the Tangram bit?
18:06 <ggn> yes
18:06 <ggn> I tried to apply a pattern in the background so it would become visible as the letters passed by
18:06 <ggn> but failed
18:06 <ggn> and I don't have the time right now
18:06 <ggn> oh well :)
18:06 <XiA> FD5, background 023
18:07 <XiA> I've always had a soft spot for that contrast
--- Log closed Sun Nov 29 18:12:27 2009
--- Log opened Sun Nov 29 18:15:00 2009
18:15 <ggn> thanks :)
18:15 <ggn> neato :)
18:16 <XiA> Works ok?
18:16 <ggn> yes
18:16 <ggn> I'll prepare a prg with the sync so far
18:16 <XiA> *yay*
[...]
18:21 <XiA> The noise works really great
18:21 <XiA> But the general idea is still to switch screens every time there's a cymbal crash?
18:22 <XiA> It looks like there's one or two noise screens of code still, could that be right?
18:22 <ggn> well there should be about 8 screens in there
18:22 <ggn> but so far the offset I choose might end in the middle of a screen
18:23 <ggn> also it might be my random routine's fault
18:23 <ggn> do you want me to copy the noise from the start of each screen specifically?
18:23 <ggn> I can enforce that
18:24 <XiA> Nah, whatever's the easiest for you. It's great now, I just thought I saw some stuff that looked a little too regular. But I bet I'm the only one in the universe that would see it
[...]
18:27 <ggn> heh
18:28 <XiA> But seriously, I bet you have better things to spend these last hours on, leave it for now
18:28 <ggn> so, how do you like it so far?
18:29 <XiA> It sorts stands and falls on the whole switching screens fast as hell, so it's hard to say, but I have high hopes! 8-)
18:30 <ggn> hehe fair enough
18:31 <XiA> The invididual fx are still really nice, and you're absolutely right about the bee, it looks GREAT
18:32 <ggn> well, I'm pretty crap as an artist, but at least I know what I like when I see it :)
18:33 <XiA> Then at least you can go be trial-and-error 8-)
18:33 <XiA> go BY*
--- Log closed Sun Nov 29 18:39:27 2009
--- Log opened Sun Nov 29 19:00:28 2009
19:00 -!- XiA [~me@c83-254-144-228.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [""]
19:02 <ggn> 23 seconds to go ;)
--- Log closed Sun Nov 29 19:07:28 2009
--- Log opened Sun Nov 29 19:12:33 2009
19:12 <ggn> 23 seconds to go ;)
19:12 <XiA> 8-)
19:13 <XiA> Back in a bit, need to install older UltraVNC on the DAW too
19:13 <ggn> ok :
19:13 <ggn> :)
--- Log closed Sun Nov 29 19:19:28 2009
--- Log opened Sun Nov 29 19:27:12 2009
[...]
19:39 <ggn> np
19:41 <ggn> 12 seconds left :)
19:41 <XiA> 8-)
[...]
19:57 -!- XiA [~me@c83-254-144-228.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout]
--- Log closed Sun Nov 29 20:03:28 2009
--- Log opened Sun Nov 29 20:06:00 2009
20:06 <ggn> busy or can I send you a 50+ seconds version? :)
20:06 <XiA> [...] Nono, please send!
[...]
20:06 <ggn> I actually went "fuck yeah!"
20:07 <ggn> the quick syncing in the end is sweet :)
20:07  * XiA is warming to shout "fuck yeah" at the top of his lungs
20:07 <XiA> And I'm a singer, so I can shout pretty loud 8-)
20:08 <ggn> hehe
20:08 <ggn> I don't have a loud voice
20:09 <XiA> And of course, now that I REALLY want to see it, STeem chooses to fuck up and not respond to mouse clicks 8-)
20:09 <ggn> awwww
20:09 <XiA> *restarting STeem*
20:10 <XiA> Ran fine now
20:11 <XiA> Still not switching on every cymbal beat until near the end, is that how you want it?
20:14 <ggn> no that's not ready
20:15 <ggn> I just added the quick cymbal changes around the 50 second mark
20:15 <XiA> Ah, cool
20:16 <XiA> The intro is a bit long, and will be even longer if we move the first pic to the end... Maybe one more picture there, something like "KάA presents" or something like that?
20:18 <ggn> well I got 20k of packed space left
20:18 <XiA> Plenty of room 8-)
20:22 <ggn> I think your endpic/noise fade out happens a bit too fast, don't you agree?
20:23 <XiA> Definitely
20:23 <XiA> It should time to the end of the music, I'm thinking. It depends on whether you move the fun pic to the end or not 8-)
20:24 <ggn> I think I will
20:26 <XiA> I'm thinking the santa should appear on the last beat of the music, that would be fun
20:28 <ggn> hmm
20:28 <ggn> I was thinking of triggering the noise effect on the last hit
20:29 <ggn> and then as it fades out
20:29 <ggn> "ik haat atari ste"
20:29 <XiA> Yeah. why not
20:29 <ggn> ok
20:29 <ggn> let's put in those last 10 secs
20:29 <ggn> it feels good that I can discuss it with someone btw
20:30 <XiA> It's always good to have someone to bounce ideas off of 8-)
20:30 <ggn> yep
[...]
20:40 <ggn> honest opinion, please :)
20:41 <ggn> I thikn it's missing some beats in the end
20:42 <XiA> Yeah, or maybe a couple are off. I'd prefer it if the noise bug could be removed
20:43 <ggn> ok
20:43 <ggn> I'll look into it
20:43 <ggn> otherwise?
20:43 <XiA> But it can't be high priority until all cymbals hits are done
20:43 <XiA> It's really hard to say anything until the cymbal hits=switches are all in place
20:43 <ggn> hehe ok
20:44 <ggn> fair enough
20:45 <XiA> Yeah, there's one beat missing, not in the VERY end, but let's wait until all the switches are in place to check it, I think
20:45 <ggn> yeah
20:46 <ggn> I think one is missing
20:46 <ggn> but critical one
20:46 <XiA> If I watch it a couple of times and find the one, how do I explain to you which one it is? 8-)
20:47 <ggn> haha
20:47 <ggn> well let me try to find it first
20:47 <XiA> 8-) Cool
20:47 <ggn> if it isn't, then you'll tell me
20:48 <ggn> aha
20:48 <ggn> I think I found the fucker :)
20:48 <XiA> *yay*
20:51 <ggn> hmm crap
20:51 <ggn> it loses sync
20:52 <XiA> STeem doesn't sync perfectly
20:54 <ggn> nah it's me
[...]
20:55 <ggn> did I get it? did I? did I?
20:56 <ggn> off to drink some water :)
20:58 <XiA> There are a couple missing starting from the point where you start following the cymbals
20:58 <ggn> I do that on purpose
20:58 <ggn> do you propose I follow all?
20:58 <XiA> Definitely, to my mind it looks weird when it doesn't follow them all
20:58 <ggn> okay
20:59 <ggn> you're the design meister :)
20:59 <ggn> btw, noise/fadeout part?
20:59 <ggn> improvement?
21:00 <XiA> Doesn't work here anymore
21:00 <XiA> LEmme reboot STeem and try it again
21:01 <ggn> weird
21:01 <XiA> Nope, just stands still here
21:02 <ggn> really????
21:02 <ggn> ok
21:02 <XiA> Yup
21:02 <ggn> just one more sync bit to go I think
--- Log closed Sun Nov 29 21:08:28 2009
--- Log opened Sun Nov 29 21:12:51 2009
21:12 <ggn> okay
[...]
21:12 <ggn> I think it's missing just ONE now
21:13 <ggn> and the noise should be fixed
21:13 <ggn> it had a few bugs there ;)
21:16 <XiA> Hard to tell, getting a bit tired here, there's definitely one missing tho. Get back to me when you have switches on all the cymbal hits
21:16 <ggn> oh
21:16 <ggn> sorry for bugging you :/
21:16 <XiA> Nono, not a problem
21:17 <XiA> But there are lots of them missing before they start syncing, much easier to see which are missing when they're all in place
21:17 <XiA> That's all I mean 8-)
21:17 <ggn> hmm
21:17 <ggn> okay
21:18 <ggn> it's true, I don't sync to all before the 50 sec marc
21:18 <ggn> maek
21:18 <ggn> mark
21:18 <ggn> gah!
21:18 <ggn> well, back to the old sync table :)
21:19 <XiA> *IF* that's what you want. It's your demo after all, maybe it's not a bad idea to not trigger at all the hit points until a bit into it. Epilepsy warning for real 8-)
21:19 <ggn> yeah I know
21:19 <ggn> let me see it one more time from the beginning
21:19 <ggn> without ff
21:20 <ggn> well sorry mate
21:21 <ggn> I think it's alright in my eyes and ears
21:21 <XiA> Well, in that case we could just do a try and find the one that's missing in the middle of it and be done?
21:21 <ggn> middle of what?
21:22 <ggn> would it be difficult to count the hits from beginning and tell me which one?
21:23 <XiA> If I say "the bit where the melody starts high and goes down in small steps", do you know where in the song that is, it's just before the end
21:23 <ggn> yeah I think it's missing one there
21:23 <ggn> so if I add the you happy?
21:23 <XiA> The last one in the pattern JUST BEFORE that is missing, then I'm as happy as a pig on christmas eve 8-)
21:24 <ggn> okay
21:24 <ggn> just for you
21:24 <XiA> 8-) Thanks
21:28 <ggn> btw, I was joking with the "just for you"
21:29 <ggn> I want to have you happy as well
[...]
21:29 <ggn> try this pls :)
21:30 <XiA> Yup, hang on!
21:33 <XiA> It's REALLY close now, but the last one during the "fallings notes" pattern is a bit early
21:34 <XiA> Apart from that, *yay*
21:34 <ggn> ah I know what you mean
21:34 <ggn> how about the noise?
21:34 <ggn> is it fixed now?
21:34 <XiA> Looking great!
21:34 <ggn> \o/
21:34 <ggn> ok, let's fix that fucker outline hitting at the wrong moment
21:34 <ggn> (see? I know what it is :))
21:35 <XiA> Hooray! 8-9
21:35 <XiA> 8-)
21:35 <XiA> I just realized we could have used the maxYMiser editor file to communicate where a problem is, song position XX, pattern pos YY
21:36 <XiA> But we solved it anyway. Damn we're good 8-)
21:36 <ggn> yeah, who gives a fuck :P:P:P
[...]
21:41 <ggn> with love
21:41 <ggn> ;)
21:41 <XiA> I assumed that's what you meant 8-)
21:43 <XiA> THERE we go, great!
21:44 <XiA> In a way I can certainly see a point in not going into "epilepsy mode" until the end, it's not bad at all
21:45 <ggn> okay
21:45 <ggn> so
21:45 <ggn> are you honestly happy?
21:46 <XiA> Yup, it's not bad at all!
21:46 <ggn> yay
21:46 <ggn> so I'll move kabouter in the end
21:46 <ggn> write some scrolltext
21:46 <XiA> The end is just as crazy as I had hoped for 8-)
21:46 <ggn> and send it on its way
21:46 <ggn> yeah :)
21:46 <ggn> that's what I saw when I envisioned it
21:46 <ggn> switch-switch-switch!
21:47 <XiA> There's one frame of palette crap when it leaves the scroll the first frame I think
21:47 <XiA> the first TIME*
21:47 <ggn> hmm
21:47 <ggn> let me see
21:48 <ggn> weird, I can's see it
21:48 <ggn> I'll single step
21:49 <ggn> nope, it honestly doesn't happen here :/
21:49 <ggn> the screen totally blanks out
21:50 -!- XiA [~me@c83-254-144-228.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout]
--- Log closed Sun Nov 29 21:56:28 2009
--- Log opened Sun Nov 29 22:07:46 2009
22:07 <ggn> anyone you want to greet? :)
22:12 <XiA> back again, bloody ISP
22:12 <XiA> I was just going to say that if you credit me in the demo, and there's room, I prefer "Excellence in Art" over "XiA", if that's not a problem
22:15 <ggn> oops
22:15 <ggn> just wrote the scrolltext
22:15 <ggn> but what the hell ;)
22:16 <XiA> It's no biggie at all, leave it
22:16 <ggn> nope I insist
22:16 <XiA> 8-) Suit yourself buddy
22:17 <ggn> there we go
22:18 <ggn> 127500 bytes final size
22:18 <XiA> Cool! Looking forward to see it in the finished demo
22:18 <ggn> I'll send you, havoc and ukko a copy each
22:18 <ggn> I'm off to test it on my ste before I send
22:18 <XiA> Good idea
22:18 <ggn> in any case THANKS A LOT PER!!!
22:19 <XiA> Hey, thanks yourself, this has been fun!
--- Log closed Sun Nov 29 22:24:28 2009
--- Log opened Sun Nov 29 22:25:37 2009
22:25 <XiA> Most challenging ST music I've ever done, I think, very good exercise 8-)
22:28 <XiA> Fuck, I just though of a possibly nice way of starting the demo. Bit too close to the deadline tho 8-)
22:29 <ggn> hehe
22:29 <ggn> tell it anyway
22:30 <ggn> and it works ok on the ste
22:30 <XiA> Your cool transitions in the beginning: First from blank to just first bitplane, then another from 1 bitplane to 2 bitplanes, all the way up to all 4
22:30 <XiA> Might actually look cool
22:30 <ggn> hmm I dunno
22:30 <XiA> It will look weird! 8-)
22:30 <ggn> it depends highly on the palette I think
22:31 <ggn> let's keep that for the remixed version ;)
22:31 <XiA> ABsolutely, but remapping the palette is not much work in DPaint 8-) Yup, I'm all for a remix version 8-)
22:31 <XiA> The 4MB version with sample audio 8-)
22:32 <ggn> yeah, let's put the original orchestra in there :)
22:32 <XiA> Or make a version with all electric guitar, or maybe all vocals 8-)
22:32 <ggn> hehe
22:33 <ggn> what's your email btw?
22:33 <XiA> [...]
22:34 <ggn> nah, I'm just CCing you the final version
22:34 <XiA> Ah, nice, thanks!
22:34 <XiA> Making an electric guitar or vocal version would prolly take 2-3 days in the studio MINIMUM, but a piano version could be done in under a day... 8-)

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