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Marskilla
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PicrossST
22.12.07 at 20:42:35
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Hi !

For some time now, a small group of atari users have been working on a new ST game...

A picross for atari st named PicrossST !!!

for the end of the year we've made a preview video.

You'll find it on http://picrossst.free.fr

Well, it's technically waaaaaaaaaay under D-bug releases but we're still waiting for your impressions !  Smiley
« Last Edit: 22.12.07 at 21:00:36 by »  
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Re: PicrossST
Reply #1 - 22.12.07 at 21:08:29
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<3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3

I always hoped someone coded a game like this for Atari!

I love you guys! Please finish it Smiley
  
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Re: PicrossST
Reply #2 - 23.12.07 at 02:08:28
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Awesome work, guys! I am really looking forward to see this game finished! Smiley
  

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Re: PicrossST
Reply #3 - 23.12.07 at 08:22:24
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Looks nice! MiNT compatibility please Smiley
  
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Re: PicrossST
Reply #4 - 23.12.07 at 08:46:11
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Very nice - loved the pause screen Smiley
  

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Re: PicrossST
Reply #5 - 23.12.07 at 09:20:14
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Guys,

I just read the (as usual) unfriendly comments over on Atari-Forum regarding your game.

Ignore all the crap about overscan, sprites, etc - just get the gameplay and the rest will slot into place.

And don't let their rather rude and unhelpful comments get you down - do it for your own fun!
  

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Re: PicrossST
Reply #6 - 23.12.07 at 09:32:29
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CJ wrote on 23.12.07 at 09:20:14:
Guys,

I just read the (as usual) unfriendly comments over on Atari-Forum regarding your game.

Ignore all the crap about overscan, sprites, etc - just get the gameplay and the rest will slot into place.

And don't let their rather rude and unhelpful comments get you down - do it for your own fun!


I second that! I can only speak from my own experience with game making (http://pouet.net/prod.php?which=7872) where, while the game was ready really quick, I spent about 4 months to add modplayer, custom windowing system etc. Those aren't bad additions, but they set back the release time.

(well, ok, I didn't spend the entire 4 months doing that, I also played the game a lot -that's why I wrote it in the first place Wink- but the point is that had there not been a thought to add more features, the game would have been released much faster).

I guess you guys already have a sort of "design document" with a checklist of stuff to include in the game, so you'd better stick by it and let the people judge it afterwards Smiley
  
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Marskilla
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Re: PicrossST
Reply #7 - 23.12.07 at 14:55:54
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CJ wrote on 23.12.07 at 09:20:14:
Ignore all the crap about overscan, sprites, etc - just get the gameplay and the rest will slot into place.

And don't let their rather rude and unhelpful comments get you down - do it for your own fun!


ggn wrote on 23.12.07 at 09:32:29:
I guess you guys already have a sort of "design document" with a checklist of stuff to include in the game, so you'd better stick by it and let the people judge it afterwards Smiley


Thanx Guyz, it helps a lot to read such comments ! And to do it for fun was definitly the main goal of the project !!!
« Last Edit: 23.12.07 at 14:58:19 by »  
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Re: PicrossST
Reply #8 - 24.12.07 at 12:10:41
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I'm really intersted in previewing/reviewing this in RGCD.  (www.rgcd.co.uk)

Our next issue is due out in the spring.  Reckon there will be a preview/demo version by then?

Keep up the good work! Smiley
  

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Marskilla
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Re: PicrossST
Reply #9 - 23.01.08 at 11:08:17
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ggn wrote on 22.12.07 at 21:08:29:
I love you guys! Please finish it Smiley

Saviour wrote on 23.12.07 at 02:08:28:
Awesome work, guys! I am really looking forward to see this game finished! Smiley


Well the project is 90% finished. but two things are going slow :

1.We don't have any musician in our team ! We used maxYMiser chip music format : http://www.preromanbritain.com/maxymiser/ .  To test we used a tune from Jess (overlanders) but I have not his contact ! So I cannot ask him an original tune or the permission to use his creation in our game. If anyone can or will create something for us we'll be delighted

2.The AC2008 team asked us to provide a championship edition to play a contest during the convention. so we have 2 games to make in the same time.

But you should'nt be waiting too long

Christos wrote on 23.12.07 at 08:22:24:
Looks nice! MiNT compatibility please Smiley


Compatibility... a big question. FOr now we tested it on tos 1.0, 1.02, 1.62 : ok.
2.06 : some colors problems.
we'll test it on TT and falcon later. For Mint compatibility it was not on our "design document" we'll see what we can do. Unfortunatly PicrosST will require 1Mo RAM


Quote:
I'm really intersted in previewing/reviewing this in RGCD.  (www.rgcd.co.uk)

Our next issue is due out in the spring.  Reckon there will be a preview/demo version by then?

Keep up the good work! Smiley


Well, the game should be almost finished for your next issue. We choosed to not release demos until the game was colmpletly done. A french magazine called ST MAG : http://stmagazine.org/ will also do a review. We'll contact you in the same time we'll contact them.

Anyway the game is doing great, STay tuned  Wink
« Last Edit: 23.01.08 at 13:05:02 by »  
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Re: PicrossST
Reply #10 - 23.01.08 at 11:32:54
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Marskilla wrote on 23.01.08 at 11:08:17:
Well the project is 90% finished. but two things are going slow :

1.We don't have any musician in our team ! We used maxYMiser chip music format : http://www.preromanbritain.com/maxymiser/ .  To test we used a tune from Jess (overlanders) but I have not his contact ! So I cannot ask him an original tune or the permission to use his creation in our game. If anyone can or will create something for us we'll be delighted


Well, I suggest you leave a message on http://bbs.dhs.nu/tracking/ and http://bbs.dhs.nu/scene/, there are LOTS of musicians around that will be willing to help Smiley

Marskilla wrote on 23.01.08 at 11:08:17:
Christos wrote on 23.12.07 at 08:22:24:
Looks nice! MiNT compatibility please Smiley


Compatibility... a big question. FOr now we tested it on tos 1.0, 1.02, 1.62 : ok.
2.06 : some colors problems.
we'll test it on TT and falcon later. For Mint compatibility it was not on our "design document" we'll see what we can do. Unfortunatly PicrosST will require 1Mo RAM


Firstly: Chris, if you ever again go as far as to suggest something like that, you'll get a severe arse kicking Tongue (or even worse, I'll give you the disassembled source of the game and force you to fix it yourself Wink)

As usual I have a Falcon, a MSTE and a TT up and running, so if you're out of machines to test then feel free to contact me!

« Last Edit: 23.01.08 at 11:33:27 by ggn »  
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Re: PicrossST
Reply #11 - 16.02.08 at 10:04:07
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CJ wrote on 23.12.07 at 09:20:14:
I just read the (as usual) unfriendly comments over on Atari-Forum regarding your game.

They weren't unfriendly. It was a (perhaps failed) attempt at constructive criticism.

CJ wrote on 23.12.07 at 09:20:14:
Ignore all the crap about overscan, sprites, etc - just get the gameplay and the rest will slot into place.

If he was writing a new game concept from scratch I would agree, but this appears to be a standard nonogram game. The gameplay is already defined. (Unless they think up something new).

CJ wrote on 23.12.07 at 09:20:14:
And don't let their rather rude and unhelpful comments get you down - do it for your own fun!

They werent rude. I just was hopeful that the authors would make the game unique in someway to the Atari ST.
« Last Edit: 16.02.08 at 10:07:49 by a1exh »  
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Marskilla
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Re: PicrossST
Reply #12 - 16.02.08 at 11:11:32
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a1exh wrote on 16.02.08 at 10:04:07:
They weren't unfriendly. It was a (perhaps failed) attempt at constructive criticism.


It wasn't failed ! I used the term nonogram all over the website to avoid "picross" copyright, and we tried to implement small eyecandies (animated transition screens, various backgrounds) to get the game visually entertaining. But we focused more on the gameplay of the title, as it's a puzzle game and we didn't want to distract the player who will have to think about what he's doing.

a1exh wrote on 16.02.08 at 10:04:07:
If he was writing a new game concept from scratch I would agree, but this appears to be a standard nonogram game. The gameplay is already defined. (Unless they think up something new).


Here I don't agree. There will be several mode (keeped secret for now). We HAD TO think about the gameplay, and his ST adaptation : size of the grids, 1 or 2 players, cooperating or competitive, timing counter, penalties, games modes, controls, difficulty level, progressive mode...

To give you an example a grid editor will be also released. Players will be able to design their grids and play them   Tongue

There will be also extra grids pack released...

We start to think about a way to publish players grids (probably on the http://picrossst.free.fr/ website).

Also, to enhance de "living length" of the title we implemented... something (keep your secret secret they say).

Anyway, reaching grid number 100 will unlock special modes   Roll Eyes.

Also a lot of work has been made about difficulty. The main problem is that nongram is not a game known by evryone. We wanted to produce something challenging but dont repulse newbies. An complexity algorith has been made to evaluate each grid in order to sort the puzzles. Also the grids has been tested in a solver to doublecheck complexity.

PicrossST wasn't made like "let's do a mario's picross on st". We thought it from scratch. We used google docs to produce the specs (design document). One the game will be complete we might publish the document (it's written in french but, hey, nobody's perfect  Grin) .

Furthermore picrossSt is a team project, it has been discussed a lot. Please, don't use "he" but "them".  Undecided Thx.

a1exh wrote on 16.02.08 at 10:04:07:
They werent rude. I just was hopeful that the authors would make the game unique in someway to the Atari ST.


Here I agree. But they were kind of "direct" (sorry my english sucks). Dont panic !  The team wasn't shocked. We listen evry feedback on the forums and examine them.

Otherwise, what would be the purpose of announcing the project on forums ?   Shocked

We could do the thing, released it , end of the story. We decided to "test" the atari brotherhood to make the game the better we could. So any feedback ( even unpleasant - which wasn't yours -) is welcome.

ggn wrote on 23.01.08 at 11:32:54:
Well, I suggest you leave a message on http://bbs.dhs.nu/tracking/ and http://bbs.dhs.nu/scene/, there are LOTS of musicians around that will be willing to help Smiley

Firstly: Chris, if you ever again go as far as to suggest something like that, you'll get a severe arse kicking Tongue (or even worse, I'll give you the disassembled source of the game and force you to fix it yourself Wink)

As usual I have a Falcon, a MSTE and a TT up and running, so if you're out of machines to test then feel free to contact me!



The urls you suggested did great. Marcer and Starbuck will maybe create tunes for us ! It's a good piece of news because we start to foresee a release date (something about end of march begining of april, more or less few weeks). It would be a shame to release a mute game or to use a tune without permission.

Some german translation are to do, few bugs here and there to correct, but the game is yet fully playable. Another version, a championship edition for a french atari convention, is also on tracks. There will be a picrossST championship with prizes for the best players at the end of the event Cheesy

The website has evolved too. there is now a rss feed for those who want to have real time news.

For the test, evry help is welcome ! I'll send you a mail when the first stable version will be compiled. And, why not, if we didn't manage to produce a flacon/TT/MegaSTE compatible version, maybe, can we hope to count on d-bug expertise ?


« Last Edit: 16.02.08 at 12:00:31 by »  
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Re: PicrossST
Reply #13 - 16.02.08 at 11:45:12
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Marskilla wrote on 16.02.08 at 11:11:32:
It wasn't failed ! I used the term nonogram all over the website, and we tried to implement small eyecandies (animated transition screens, various backgrounds) to get the game visually entertaining. But we focused more on the gameplay of the title as it's a puzzle game and we didn't want to distract the player who will have to think about what he's doing.


Spot on! Getting the gameplay right is the most critical bit in a game! Even companies like Thalion with their mighty techincal skills didn't have exactly a good score in their games, gameplay-wise.

Lately I've been reading a blog by a guy that makes and releases freeware games in one week: http://www.kloonigames.com/blog/. Some of the games there are highly addictive, playable and fun! He even does a post-analysis of the game, what went right, what went wrong. I definitely recommend reading the posts.

Marskilla wrote on 16.02.08 at 11:11:32:
a1exh wrote on 16.02.08 at 10:04:07:
If he was writing a new game concept from scratch I would agree, but this appears to be a standard nonogram game. The gameplay is already defined. (Unless they think up something new).


Here I don't agree. There will be several mode (keeped secret for now). We HAD TO think about the gameplay, and his ST adaptation : size of the grids, 1 or 2 players, cooperating or competitive, timing counter, penalties, games modes, controls...

For example a grid editor will be also released players will be able to design their grids and play them Wink

There will be also extra grids pack released... We start to think to publish players grids...

Also to enhance de living length of the title we implemented... something (keep your secret secret they say).

Anyway, reaching grid number 100 will unlock special modes Wink.

Further more picrossSt is a team project, it has been discussed a lot. Please, don't use "he" but "them". Thx.


I must say you're being sour, Alex. How many truly original games have you played lately? Game companies are too scared to invest in any original concepts, so they re-re-re-re-recycle all the games that sold in the past. Secondly, are there LOTS of games being written for Atari 16/32 lately? And while I'm at it, are there LOTS of piccross games for the ST? I think there are none, so yeah, for the platform, PiccrossST is an original game for the platform that was truly missing.

And Marskilla answered for me regarding originallity: they took the game and they tweaked it (not graphics-wise, but gameplay-wise). So personally I eagerly await to see what's in store!

a1exh wrote on 16.02.08 at 10:04:07:
They werent rude. I just was hopeful that the authors would make the game unique in someway to the Atari ST.


Read my thoughts above regarding originality. If you have a good and original idea, either write the specs down and offer it freely for someone that might develop it, or do it yourself.  Also note that they don't use ripped gfx or zak, so the version will be unique for the Atari ST.

Marskilla wrote on 16.02.08 at 11:11:32:
The urls you suggested did great. Marcer and Starbuck will maybe create tunes for us ! It's a good piece of news because we start to foresee a release date (something about end of march begining of april, more or less few weeks). It would be a shame to release a mute game or to use a tune without permission.

Some german translation are to do, few bugs here and there to correct, but the game is yet fully playable. Another version, a championship edition for a french atari convention, is also on tracks. There will be a picrossST championship with prizes for the best players at the end of the event Cheesy

The website has evolved too. there is now a rss feed for those who want to have real time news.

For the test, evry help is welcome ! I'll send you a mail when the first stable version will be compiled. And, why not, if we didn't manage to produce a flacon/TT/MegaSTE compatible version, maybe, can we hope to count on d-bug expertise ?


Good! Just contact me if you're interested in testing...
« Last Edit: 16.02.08 at 11:45:54 by ggn »  
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Re: PicrossST
Reply #14 - 16.02.08 at 12:18:19
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ggn wrote on 16.02.08 at 11:45:12:
I must say you're being sour, Alex.

Ok. I dont quite see what there is to get sour about? I gave an opinion. Tried to give it in a good honest way. No bull etc. Open enough to realise that other people dont share the same opinion.

ggn wrote on 16.02.08 at 11:45:12:
How many truly original games have you played lately? Game companies are too scared to invest in any original concepts, so they re-re-re-re-recycle all the games that sold in the past.

Hmm tough one. Original concepts eh? Guitar Hero, but some say it borrows too much from the "Dance Mat" genre, which I guess is true. Singstar, but it's little more than advanced Kareoke. I really liked Zak & Wiki on the Wii, it borrows heavily from the Lucas Arts adventures, but the use of the Wii controller is unique and adds a lot more gameplay. Mercury on the PSP by legendary 16-bit programmer Geoff Crammond, that is quite a unique game. Brain Training on the DS.

ggn wrote on 16.02.08 at 11:45:12:
Secondly, are there LOTS of games being written for Atari 16/32 lately? And while I'm at it, are there LOTS of piccross games for the ST? I think there are none, so yeah, for the platform, PiccrossST is an original game for the platform that was truly missing.

I understand your point of view. But todays gamers (especially retro enthusiasts) rarely use one platform. If you have Call of Duty 4 on the Xbox360 you don't tend to buy the PS3 version too or Medal of Honour etc. unless you think it's going to be different enough. All I was only hoping to enthuse the developers into making PicrossST unique enough to stand above other Picross games, enough to make people familiar with the games genre to be curious.

ggn wrote on 16.02.08 at 11:45:12:
And Marskilla answered for me regarding originallity: they took the game and they tweaked it (not graphics-wise, but gameplay-wise). So personally I eagerly await to see what's in store!

I couldnt have known that when I wrote my comments. The video was of the standard 1-player nonogram game.
« Last Edit: 16.02.08 at 12:24:14 by a1exh »  
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Re: PicrossST
Reply #15 - 16.02.08 at 20:44:08
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I'm really pleased to hear you are including unlockables & extras - anything that keeps a game more interesting & worth coming back to can't be a bad thing.

thanks to ggn for that link, very interesting stuff, just wish i had more time to really go through it more.
  

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Re: PicrossST
Reply #16 - 16.02.08 at 20:44:48
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a1exh wrote on 16.02.08 at 12:18:19:
Mercury on the PSP by legendary 16-bit programmer Geoff Crammond, that is quite a unique game.


I think you'll find it was the God himself, Archer Mclean.
  

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Re: PicrossST
Reply #17 - 17.02.08 at 20:13:44
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D'oh! Well they both did 3D games Wink

Archer Maclean lives around here (oxford) somewhere. Keep meaning to phone him and see if he wants any more Atari cabs for his Arcade Machine collection (I've got 10's but I just dont have the space these days)
« Last Edit: 17.02.08 at 20:14:39 by a1exh »  
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Re: PicrossST
Reply #18 - 01.05.08 at 15:01:35
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PicrossST is finaly done !!!  Cheesy

You'll find it, with the grids editor, the ac2008 edition and a puzzle bonus pack on http://picrossst.free.fr.

Please note the game require at least 1MB RAM and a wrtie enabled location (for savegames).

The team sincerelly hope that you'll enjoy the game as much we did making it.

Of course, it is not a very technically advanced program, it might have some bugs not resolved but we hope it will do it.

If you have questions and/or remarks just post them here !
  
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Re: PicrossST
Reply #19 - 05.05.08 at 06:48:06
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Damn, with all this Outline business and all I haven't had the time yet to test it  Cry

Right, that's it, I'll do it today.




Hooray for the frenchies!
  
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Re: PicrossST
Reply #20 - 12.05.08 at 10:46:09
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ggn wrote on 05.05.08 at 06:48:06:
Right, that's it, I'll do it today.


Is it that bad for you to test it and not post a comment on it ?   Cheesy

More seriously, nobody has tested it ?   Undecided

Anyway further updates will be done in the following weeks (bug fixes, minor improvments...) I'll post something on the forum when the final version will be on the website.
  
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Re: PicrossST
Reply #21 - 12.05.08 at 11:14:24
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Oh I did. Sorry for not commenting yet  Embarrassed Embarrassed Embarrassed Embarrassed Embarrassed Embarrassed Embarrassed Apologies...

Everything looks and feels GREAT! Well done guys! One thing I would like to see though is this: When one clicks on the mouse and holds it, he/she can drag around the mouse and keep selecting adjacent boxes. As this is very error prone (I ended up losing because I didn't release the mouse button it time!) could you change the behaviour into: when the player clicks on a square, even if he/she moves the mouse around, another box cannot be selected?

(damn it, now I remember why I forgot to post last time, I started playing just to double check what I wrote and I lost myself in the game! Now that's addictive Wink)

Another good idea would be this: if a line or column is "ready", meaning that all the squares that needed to be filled are filled, the program could automatically cross out the remaining white squares. That might be considered to make the game a bit more easy, but in practice (I played a japanese version of piccross in mame and it was fun!) it's actually a good addition.

More stuff as I think of it, if you add these 2 suggestions above, I'd be more than pleased Smiley

Regards, ggn

P.S. Would you guys consider adding joystick control?
P.P.S. and maybe not use the system font?
P.P.P.S. I could go on for hours adding stuff like these Wink
« Last Edit: 12.05.08 at 11:18:34 by ggn »  
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PicrossST
Reply #22 - 19.12.08 at 13:31:51
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This Topic was moved here from Random Access [move by] ggn.
  
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