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 10 Single load (TOS/PRG) games (Read 4609 times)
remowilliams
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Single load (TOS/PRG) games
31.01.09 at 07:02:27
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So I figured if you lot spent the time doing all these, the least I could do was try them out (even if some are crapola  Tongue).   So here I present the list of all those that I found issues with.  I didn't want to start a topic for each one so I lumped them all together.

Note: most intros with the wavy 'dbug presents', and the dbug logo in the background - the 'use 16mhz',  and trainer options are barely or not at all visible.

--

Arcade Classics - 4 bombs, launched from med/low

Astaroth - music too fast with 8mhz enabled / game goes to start screen, plays in game music - no player character or anything else appears on screen other than the background gfx, all inputs seem to do nothing

Frenetic - after crack screen, just black screen and music (which sounds to fast even if 8Mhz is selected).

Ghosts N Goblins - runs fast even if 8Mhz is selected

Ghouls N Ghosts - runs fast even if 8Mhz is selected

Helter Skelter - runs fast even if 8Mhz is selected.  Basically unplayable

Indiana Jones - 16Mhz doesn't seem to do anything

Mean Machine - runs fast even if 8Mhz is selected

Mercenary III - runs fast even if 8Mhz is selected

Microprose Soccer - runs fast even if 8Mhz is selected

Mudpies - immediately crashes to the desktop, lots 'o' bombs

Munsters - runs fast even if 8Mhz is selected

The New Zealand Story - 'press fire to play' Not here, no way to start the game

Pepsi Challenge - runs fast even if 8Mhz is selected.  Didn't seem to be able to control the player character.

Rainbow Islands - Dbug intro seems to have trouble (music stutter, animation leaving pieces behind occasionally), game loads title screen then just turns black.  8 or 16Mhz selected

Ripcord - 1 player is selected, mouse is active but cannot select start

Spikey In Transylvania - black screen after in game title screen 8/16Mhz

Lands of Havoc - 4 bombs, return to desktop

Wizball - graphics flicker in and out like mad making it unplayable

Wonderboy in Monsterland - music seems to run too fast 8/16Mhz

Zany Golf - depack screen, then three bombs, launched from med/low

--

MSTE (NTSC) 4MB/2.06/Satandisk 1GB SD(250M part)/HDDRIVER8.23/clean boot/Low free 3972870

  
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CJ
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Re: Single load (TOS/PRG) games
Reply #1 - 31.01.09 at 11:45:59
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Ok, first off

"Runs too fast even at 8mhz" - The VGA falcon is 60Hz and not 50Hz... NTSC is 60Hz and not 50hz... so really, its 10fps faster by default. Nothing we can do.

As for the others, that seems a tad too long a list for it to be anything other than a hardware fault - especially when you take into account your no sound F19 issue. Plus it's an STE with a Satandisk (v1) - could it be bad DMA or even unreliable Satandisks?

They've all been tested on 3 MSTE's with different TOS' before we release them.

Also, and please dont take this the wrong way (like some other people have) but waiting (for some cases) over two years and then submitting a massive bug report of 20 or so titles is a bit off.
« Last Edit: 31.01.09 at 11:52:00 by CJ »  

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Re: Single load (TOS/PRG) games
Reply #2 - 31.01.09 at 14:02:39
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I can confirm the New Zealand Story bug. Fire (or any other key) doesn´t bring me into game...

And:
"Note: most intros with the wavy 'dbug presents', and the dbug logo in the background - the 'use 16mhz',  and trainer options are barely or not at all visible."

Same problem here. Sometimes when i start my Falcon all Options (16Mhz (Y/N), Cache (Y/N), Trainer (Y/N) etc.) are available. But sometimes i see all those options being selected (very fast) although i don´t press any key at all...Strange... Undecided
« Last Edit: 31.01.09 at 14:06:41 by Saviour »  

- /|\ ATARI Falcon030 with PhantomS - TOS 4.04 - 68882 FPU - 14 MB RAM - 800 MB internal IDE Harddisk - External CD-ROM - MagiC 6.2 - Jinnee 2.01 - NVDI 5.01 - HD Driver 8.13
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Re: Single load (TOS/PRG) games
Reply #3 - 31.01.09 at 14:35:06
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That sounds like the TwinSync bug to me.
  

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ggn
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Re: Single load (TOS/PRG) games
Reply #4 - 31.01.09 at 17:10:03
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Since that intro is mine:

Something (or someOne!) is generating keyboard interrupts. I use standard gemdos calls for key input, so I really don't have a clue why this happens. Does this happen on specific games, or on some certain cases?

More than 5 test Falcons and 3 megastes (and 1 tt) never had any problems with this intro, and I haven't changed the code in about 2 years, so up till now I assumed it worked ok...
  
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remowilliams
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Re: Single load (TOS/PRG) games
Reply #5 - 31.01.09 at 17:46:21
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CJ wrote on 31.01.09 at 11:45:59:
"Runs too fast even at 8mhz" - The VGA falcon is 60Hz and not 50Hz... NTSC is 60Hz and not 50hz...

Understood, but should the titles run at the same speed if you choose 8mhz or 16mhz?  Because that is what is happening in many cases.

CJ wrote on 31.01.09 at 11:45:59:
As for the others, that seems a tad too long a list for it to be anything other than a hardware fault - especially when you take into account your no sound F19 issue. Plus it's an STE with a Satandisk (v1) - could it be bad DMA or even unreliable Satandisks?

Well, the F19 sound issue is sorted now - I just can't abort the intro digimusic if I want sound for the rest of the game.  As far as hardware fault, I don't think it's likely especially in the case where I also tested stuff on my Falcon (without Satandisk) that did the same thing.

CJ wrote on 31.01.09 at 11:45:59:
Also, and please dont take this the wrong way (like some other people have) but waiting (for some cases) over two years and then submitting a massive bug report of 20 or so titles is a bit off.

No hard feelings, I just figured some feedback is better than none.  Wink   I plan on trying all the releases, even if I have little or no interest in the games themselves.

And yeah, I don't expect this list to be a priority or anything.   Smiley
  
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Re: Single load (TOS/PRG) games
Reply #6 - 31.01.09 at 18:04:04
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ggn wrote on 31.01.09 at 17:10:03:
Since that intro is mine:

Something (or someOne!) is generating keyboard interrupts. I use standard gemdos calls for key input, so I really don't have a clue why this happens. Does this happen on specific games, or on some certain cases?

It is on every game with that kind of Intro. The game itself works without problems. But as i said, sometimes i start my Falcon, run the game and none of those option are left available (because they seem to skip). Sometimes i am just left with the last option (let it be the 16/8MHz switch), and sometimes it works fine. It seems that these keys are generated randomly.

What does that mean "someOne is generating keyboard interrupts"?
Every time i start a game on my Falcon, the procedure is always the same. I switch on my Atari and the only two keys that I press are ESC (for skipping the Memory Test) and (holding) CONTROL (for clean boot). Then i always start the game immediately...
« Last Edit: 31.01.09 at 18:05:56 by Saviour »  

- /|\ ATARI Falcon030 with PhantomS - TOS 4.04 - 68882 FPU - 14 MB RAM - 800 MB internal IDE Harddisk - External CD-ROM - MagiC 6.2 - Jinnee 2.01 - NVDI 5.01 - HD Driver 8.13
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Re: Single load (TOS/PRG) games
Reply #7 - 31.01.09 at 21:58:22
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Well, I didn't mean to imply anything about you. But, since I have no idea what's happening, I thought I'd write down the 2 possibilities that could cause this behaviour.

One thing's for certain: the keyboard buffer has keyboard clicks registered that remain there until they are processed. My intro uses the standard GEMDOS call cconin(), which either waits until a key is pressed, or pulls a key from the keyboard buffer.

Now then, when I'm resetting my falcon sometimes, I hear as if some key is stuck and is being pressed down, when there isn't one. The only thing that can make this stop is to press any key. But this doesn't mean that the keys pressed are registered by any program. So, if one doesn't press any key and this phenomenon carries on to the desktop and into my loader, then, sure enough, bogus keyclicks will be read by my code and the user won't be able to react at all.

In conclusion, I'm really sorry, but I can't do anything about it, because I think it's a hardware issue mostly. If someone had mentioned this earlier (the code's been written in December 07!), then I would have changed the logic or added more code to try and prevent this. But, at the rate we're releasing stuff at the moment, there is simply no time for me to make a potential fix on this and re-assemble all my loaders from scratch and re-publish them (personally I'm struggling trying to catch up with all the games that need to be tested, debug them, provide fixes, reports etc etc).
  
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CJ
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Re: Single load (TOS/PRG) games
Reply #8 - 31.01.09 at 23:22:38
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Ok, I was just discussing this with GGN and he thought you meant his intro (big D-Bug logo moving in a circle, text over it) and I thought you all meant my intro (static D-Bug logo, wobbly text over it)

However, we both concluded it doesnt matter as they both use standard trap calls to read the keyboard.

I do, however, know that the strobing/disjointed text you are describing does indeed happen on my intro when the falcon is exhibiting the very well known twinsync bug, but this doesnt explain the MSTE problem.

What MIGHT explain that is this: Less cpu cycles/frame in NTSC and the intro running over that time (usually caused by the music taking to long to play)

Try them in 50Hz see if you get the same issue.
  

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Re: Single load (TOS/PRG) games
Reply #9 - 01.02.09 at 01:44:46
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Using the Chubby Gristle patch for testing (MSTE):

At 60Hz - the first four lines of text starting with D-Bug and ending with CJ are visible at all times.  The 'use 16Mhz' text is invisible nearly the entire time occasionally flickering into view for a split second.

At 50Hz - the first two lines of text are visible at all times.  The middle two lines and the 'use 16Mhz' prompt are all visible at some point but they alternately flicker in and out of view.
« Last Edit: 01.02.09 at 01:45:19 by remowilliams »  
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Re: Single load (TOS/PRG) games
Reply #10 - 01.02.09 at 02:41:06
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Thanks, I know what this is and I believe it's fixed on all the latest single load files... I have no idea why you get that effect tho.

Just tried Captain Fizz.

UK/USA TOS/8Mhz/16Mhz/32Mhz - no flickering - is this one ok for you?
« Last Edit: 01.02.09 at 10:46:11 by CJ »  

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Re: Single load (TOS/PRG) games
Reply #11 - 01.02.09 at 20:36:03
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Looks like it pretty much behaves the way I described above as well.
  
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Re: Single load (TOS/PRG) games
Reply #12 - 01.02.09 at 21:50:52
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Hrm then all I can say is your machine is 1vbl out of sync to mine Wink and is displaying the work screen instead of the rendered screen.
  

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Re: Single load (TOS/PRG) games
Reply #13 - 01.02.09 at 22:54:18
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Ok, I tried out Captain Fizz on Steem...

Here's the deal - the intro runs at the right speed and no flickers there, but on my MSTE (regardless of 50hz/60hz) it is running insanely fast.  The waving text and music are moving and playing at incredibly the wrong speed.  Like it's at 16Mhz from the start.  And the game is playing way too fast as well, like it's always 16Mhz.  As a matter of fact it plays at the same speed whether you choose 16Mhz or not from the intro.  

This is the issue with many of the games that I posted as 'running fast'  I know the difference between 50hz/60hz timings, but this is way too huge of a difference to be that.

EDIT: I just verified Captain Fizz behaves correctly (the same as STeem) on my 1040ST.  No flickers, sane music and correct game speed at 8Mhz.

The only conclusion I'm left with is that the games exhibiting the incorrect behavior are simply running at 16Mhz from the moment the menus start on the MSTE.
« Last Edit: 01.02.09 at 22:57:11 by remowilliams »  
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Re: Single load (TOS/PRG) games
Reply #14 - 01.02.09 at 22:58:23
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ok...

btw checked your private messages?
  

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Re: Single load (TOS/PRG) games
Reply #15 - 01.02.09 at 23:02:38
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remowilliams wrote on 01.02.09 at 22:54:18:
on my MSTE (regardless of 50hz/60hz) it is running insanely fast.

I just verified Captain Fizz behaves correctly (the same as STeem) on my 1040ST.No flickers, sane music and correct game speed at 8Mhz.


So, it's NOT NTSC.

I would say your MSTE has issues waiting for vsync for some reason. What TOS version is it?  We've tested on MSTE on TOS 2.03 and 2.04, but obviously cannot test on NTSC TOS systems.
  

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Re: Single load (TOS/PRG) games
Reply #16 - 01.02.09 at 23:07:44
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CJ wrote on 01.02.09 at 22:58:23:
ok...

btw checked your private messages?


I just did.  OMG!  Testing to commence!   Cool  Smiley

The MSTE is TOS 2.06.  I have a 2.05 set as well that is not installed.
« Last Edit: 01.02.09 at 23:09:25 by remowilliams »  
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Re: Single load (TOS/PRG) games
Reply #17 - 01.02.09 at 23:21:39
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CJ wrote on 01.02.09 at 23:02:38:
So, it's NOT NTSC.

I would say your MSTE has issues waiting for vsync for some reason.

Yes, good news that its not just an NTSC thing.  FWIW, the MSTE has no bizarro mods or anything and regular software (even commercial protected software) works the way it should.

If you come up with anything, I'll gladly test it.   Wink
  
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