Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 [2] 3 4  Send TopicPrint
 25 Wow, ULS has no pre-cache - thats news to me! (Read 5599 times)
Phill
Distributor
**
Offline


D-BUGer

Posts: 54
Joined: 19.10.09
Re: Wow, ULS has no pre-cache - thats news to me!
Reply #30 - 08.01.10 at 12:02:09
Print Post  
Graham is starting to piss people off now.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
CJ
D-Bug member
Reboot Member
*****
Offline


D-Bug Founder

Posts: 1205
Location: State of Confusion
Joined: 22.02.07
Gender: Male
Re: Wow, ULS has no pre-cache - thats news to me!
Reply #31 - 08.01.10 at 12:18:54
Print Post  
Heh you have an Amiga version of MugUK as well!
  

"With only one button, even drooling fucktards like Kizza can play our game!"
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Phill
Distributor
**
Offline


D-BUGer

Posts: 54
Joined: 19.10.09
Re: Wow, ULS has no pre-cache - thats news to me!
Reply #32 - 08.01.10 at 12:26:27
Print Post  
CJ wrote on 08.01.10 at 12:18:54:
Heh you have an Amiga version of MugUK as well!


Haha, no but its getting beyond a joke now, so a message is going to be sent to Admin to get it sorted out.

Its not on for someone to cause problems, write a load of guff and then deny people the right to respond, its just not on.

In answer to your question on saving, WHDLoad was ammended several years ago (on my request).

If you have the memory to preload everything, then it will save any save games or hiscores to ram, and then when you quit back to dos, then it will save the relevant data.

So obviously in game, if you save lots of times, the saves will still be done properly.

If you have a low mem system, it will OS swap and save at the time, not after the game has quit, and this is also how it used to work even if you had enough memory, but OS swapping looks daft on a machine with enough memory, so it was changed.

It doesn't take long to save, its merely a second, depending on the size of file to save (Championship Manager 2 is 2x 1meg save files!!!), but obviously as its doing the OS swap, the screen is switched off, and any music is stopped from playing as it restores all the interrupts back to their original OS settings, does the save, and then swaps back again.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
CJ
D-Bug member
Reboot Member
*****
Offline


D-Bug Founder

Posts: 1205
Location: State of Confusion
Joined: 22.02.07
Gender: Male
Re: Wow, ULS has no pre-cache - thats news to me!
Reply #33 - 08.01.10 at 12:35:20
Print Post  
This is the bit I dont get with WHDload:

Quote:
It doesn't take long to save, its merely a second, depending on the size of file to save (Championship Manager 2 is 2x 1meg save files!!!), but obviously as its doing the OS swap, the screen is switched off, and any music is stopped from playing as it restores all the interrupts back to their original OS settings, does the save, and then swaps back again.


If you have to disable/restore the OS - *why* can't it support savestates?  Sting tried to explain it but it all sounded like guff Smiley

As for locking that thread, I thought we were having a nice polite discussion. Oh well, no fear of locking it here Smiley
  

"With only one button, even drooling fucktards like Kizza can play our game!"
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Klapauzius
Distributor
**
Offline


ULSer

Posts: 95
Location: Bavaria
Joined: 29.06.07
Gender: Male
Re: Wow, ULS has no pre-cache - thats news to me!
Reply #34 - 08.01.10 at 12:54:57
Print Post  
Phill wrote on 08.01.10 at 12:26:27:
... but obviously as its doing the OS swap, the screen is switched off, and any music is stopped from playing as it restores all the interrupts back to their original OS settings, does the save, and then swaps back again.


You could use a screen buffer in OS mem and copy the game screen content to keep the screen at least, couldn't you? That's the way we ULSer are doing it anyway.  Smiley
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Shw
D-Bug member
*****
Offline


D-Bug member

Posts: 367
Location: Kingston Upon Hull
Joined: 22.02.07
Gender: Male
Re: Wow, ULS has no pre-cache - thats news to me!
Reply #35 - 08.01.10 at 14:53:28
Print Post  
he's even locked the "off topic" one!! how bizarre!

Shw
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Phill
Distributor
**
Offline


D-BUGer

Posts: 54
Joined: 19.10.09
Re: Wow, ULS has no pre-cache - thats news to me!
Reply #36 - 08.01.10 at 15:53:39
Print Post  
CJ wrote on 08.01.10 at 12:35:20:
This is the bit I dont get with WHDload:

Quote:
It doesn't take long to save, its merely a second, depending on the size of file to save (Championship Manager 2 is 2x 1meg save files!!!), but obviously as its doing the OS swap, the screen is switched off, and any music is stopped from playing as it restores all the interrupts back to their original OS settings, does the save, and then swaps back again.


If you have to disable/restore the OS - *why* can't it support savestates?  Sting tried to explain it but it all sounded like guff Smiley

As for locking that thread, I thought we were having a nice polite discussion. Oh well, no fear of locking it here Smiley


In theory it is possible, because Action Replay cartridge can do a save state, though it is worth mentioning it doesn't work 100% on all games.

Its a hell of a lot of work to get an accurate save state, for one because of all the read only custom registers, not everyone has an MMU.  Secondly, because of the amount of co-processors, you would need to be able to capture them  in the same state, which if the blitter is part way through a blit is going to cause problems, because of course the blitter can be used to do many things other than moving data, it can also be used to decode the trackbuffer when reading disks.

Its a lot of work when you consider that most Amiga games had saves in them, so its always been easier to just cater for those.

I know Wepl the author of WHDLoad has thought about doing it, but its a hell of a lot of work.
« Last Edit: 08.01.10 at 15:55:14 by Phill »  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
TechnoLurker
RoMzkiddiEz
*
Offline


D-BUGer

Posts: 10
Location: The Meat Cleaver US State
Joined: 26.08.09
Gender: Male
Re: Wow, ULS has no pre-cache - thats news to me!
Reply #37 - 08.01.10 at 17:46:36
Print Post  
The off-topic topic at EAB wasn't even insulting.  Just seemed to me to be more informative than anything.

*shrugs*

Oh, well.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
CJ
D-Bug member
Reboot Member
*****
Offline


D-Bug Founder

Posts: 1205
Location: State of Confusion
Joined: 22.02.07
Gender: Male
Re: Wow, ULS has no pre-cache - thats news to me!
Reply #38 - 08.01.10 at 21:58:12
Print Post  
Phill wrote on 08.01.10 at 15:53:39:
Secondly, because of the amount of co-processors, you would need to be able to capture themin the same state, which if the blitter is part way through a blit is going to cause problems, because of course the blitter can be used to do many things other than moving data, it can also be used to decode the trackbuffer when reading disks.


From the start of the ULS core....

Code
Select All
.blitwait
	btst.b #7,$ffff8a3c.w		; wait if blitter is busy
	bne.s .blitwait
 



At this point all interupts are off and ULS is in complete control of the system. I'd assume there has to be a point in the WHD code where something similar can be done.

See, it's not complicated Smiley
« Last Edit: 08.01.10 at 22:01:21 by CJ »  

"With only one button, even drooling fucktards like Kizza can play our game!"
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Phill
Distributor
**
Offline


D-BUGer

Posts: 54
Joined: 19.10.09
Re: Wow, ULS has no pre-cache - thats news to me!
Reply #39 - 08.01.10 at 23:33:44
Print Post  
CJ wrote on 08.01.10 at 21:58:12:
Phill wrote on 08.01.10 at 15:53:39:
Secondly, because of the amount of co-processors, you would need to be able to capture themin the same state, which if the blitter is part way through a blit is going to cause problems, because of course the blitter can be used to do many things other than moving data, it can also be used to decode the trackbuffer when reading disks.


From the start of the ULS core....

Code
Select All
.blitwait
	btst.b #7,$ffff8a3c.w		; wait if blitter is busy
	bne.s .blitwait
 



At this point all interupts are off and ULS is in complete control of the system. I'd assume there has to be a point in the WHD code where something similar can be done.

See, it's not complicated Smiley


Yes Amiga has a blitwait function, but if the blitter is kept constantly busy because the game hasn't used blitwaits and just runs blits concurrently one after another, waiting for the blitter to finish might never occur.

Also its possible and some programmers do use the blitter from the copperlist, which can then cause problems restoring as you'd need to restart that copperlist, and it could be a dynamic one that is constantly being altered which will again cause problems.

But thats all childs play compared to having access to read only custom registers and restoring them.  Action Replay got by this because of its Zorro access to the memory bus so it could intercept and monitor writes to custom registers and memory, all Amigas would need an MMU to do a proper 100% accurate save state.

it would be possible I suppose for someone to to a software version that assumes certain custom registers would get their proper values restored by the game and hardware once the game gets up and running, but theres no guarantee of that.

Its just a little more complicated on Amiga, otherwise it would have been successfully integrated already Wink

Its not as if the Amiga lacks the talent Wink
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
CJ
D-Bug member
Reboot Member
*****
Offline


D-Bug Founder

Posts: 1205
Location: State of Confusion
Joined: 22.02.07
Gender: Male
Re: Wow, ULS has no pre-cache - thats news to me!
Reply #40 - 09.01.10 at 00:50:22
Print Post  
heheh you guys are always playing catchup Tongue
  

"With only one button, even drooling fucktards like Kizza can play our game!"
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
CJ
D-Bug member
Reboot Member
*****
Offline


D-Bug Founder

Posts: 1205
Location: State of Confusion
Joined: 22.02.07
Gender: Male
Re: Wow, ULS has no pre-cache - thats news to me!
Reply #41 - 09.01.10 at 00:55:53
Print Post  
Phill wrote on 08.01.10 at 23:33:44:
waiting for the blitter to finish might never occur.


If all interupts are off, and the cpu is in your code, how is it possible for it not to finish?
  

"With only one button, even drooling fucktards like Kizza can play our game!"
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Phill
Distributor
**
Offline


D-BUGer

Posts: 54
Joined: 19.10.09
Re: Wow, ULS has no pre-cache - thats news to me!
Reply #42 - 09.01.10 at 03:28:53
Print Post  
CJ wrote on 09.01.10 at 00:55:53:
Phill wrote on 08.01.10 at 23:33:44:
waiting for the blitter to finish might never occur.


If all interupts are off, and the cpu is in your code, how is it possible for it not to finish?


Irrelevant.  You need to know the blitter has finished, so that when you restore the game after saving it, everything is where it should be.

Lack of blitwaits in Amiga games is not an unusual case.

And as far as I can remember, halting the interrupts doesn't halt the blitter, once the blitsize is moved into $dff058, only the blitter finishing its blit will stop it.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
CJ
D-Bug member
Reboot Member
*****
Offline


D-Bug Founder

Posts: 1205
Location: State of Confusion
Joined: 22.02.07
Gender: Male
Re: Wow, ULS has no pre-cache - thats news to me!
Reply #43 - 09.01.10 at 04:50:52
Print Post  
Exactly.

So if all ints are off, and you have the CPU... if you wait for the current blit to finish... how can you possibly be in the middle of another blit operation when you state save?  There's no way to "re-start" the blitter at that point.
  

"With only one button, even drooling fucktards like Kizza can play our game!"
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Phill
Distributor
**
Offline


D-BUGer

Posts: 54
Joined: 19.10.09
Re: Wow, ULS has no pre-cache - thats news to me!
Reply #44 - 09.01.10 at 12:46:17
Print Post  
CJ wrote on 09.01.10 at 04:50:52:
Exactly.

So if all ints are off, and you have the CPU... if you wait for the current blit to finish... how can you possibly be in the middle of another blit operation when you state save?  There's no way to "re-start" the blitter at that point.


Like I said, thats all moot as writing back to read only custom registers is the problem.  Not every Amiga had an MMU, and not all processor cards have an MMU, so save state is a lot of effort for not many people.

Sure, its a nifty feature, but as most Amiga games have a save feature anyway, its really not worth the effort.

I'm certainly not interested in having to do additional fixes just to ensure a certain game will save state properly.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
CJ
D-Bug member
Reboot Member
*****
Offline


D-Bug Founder

Posts: 1205
Location: State of Confusion
Joined: 22.02.07
Gender: Male
Re: Wow, ULS has no pre-cache - thats news to me!
Reply #45 - 09.01.10 at 12:57:39
Print Post  
http://p_p_e_r_a.07x.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=67

Aww look, you made a new friend Smiley

(remove the _ from the domain name)
« Last Edit: 09.01.10 at 12:58:45 by CJ »  

"With only one button, even drooling fucktards like Kizza can play our game!"
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
CJ
D-Bug member
Reboot Member
*****
Offline


D-Bug Founder

Posts: 1205
Location: State of Confusion
Joined: 22.02.07
Gender: Male
Re: Wow, ULS has no pre-cache - thats news to me!
Reply #46 - 09.01.10 at 13:03:54
Print Post  
Quote:
D-Bug invented nothing - they ported WHDLoad concept on Atari. They made no any supporting util SW at all. Even can not write some GUI, GEM program, and they are 4-6 or whatever people.


LOL.

Yes I just loaded WHDload into GenST and hit "assemble" - it was *that* easy.

There's no "supporting software" because unlike his shite, we don't need any!

We dont need a GUI you prat. Its all click and play. Unlike your bodgy click and prey system Tongue

Quote:
They hate me because I don't respect so called 'established sceners'. That's again bullshit. I don't care about establishmment.


Doesn't that contradict itself?  It's also (again) inaccurate. We hate him because he's a talentless cunt. A bit like the Jeremy Beadle of the ST world Smiley
« Last Edit: 09.01.10 at 13:20:10 by CJ »  

"With only one button, even drooling fucktards like Kizza can play our game!"
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Phill
Distributor
**
Offline


D-BUGer

Posts: 54
Joined: 19.10.09
Re: Wow, ULS has no pre-cache - thats news to me!
Reply #47 - 09.01.10 at 13:56:27
Print Post  
CJ wrote on 09.01.10 at 12:57:39:
http://p_p_e_r_a.07x.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=67

Aww look, you made a new friend Smiley

(remove the _ from the domain name)


Fvcking coward!  The guy is a first class fvcking moron!
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
CJ
D-Bug member
Reboot Member
*****
Offline


D-Bug Founder

Posts: 1205
Location: State of Confusion
Joined: 22.02.07
Gender: Male
Re: Wow, ULS has no pre-cache - thats news to me!
Reply #48 - 09.01.10 at 14:02:57
Print Post  
Shall I start a "Hurl a random insult at the talentless cunt troll fvucking moron codestealing weasel mental nutjob idiot" thread? Smiley

I think we can even put Amenos in there as well.

We have to (grudgingly) give him bonus credit for picking on MugUK tho Smiley
« Last Edit: 09.01.10 at 14:04:15 by CJ »  

"With only one button, even drooling fucktards like Kizza can play our game!"
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Christos
Distributor
Reboot Member
**
Offline


D-BUGer

Posts: 212
Joined: 06.03.07
Re: Wow, ULS has no pre-cache - thats news to me!
Reply #49 - 09.01.10 at 14:21:51
Print Post  
@Anemos, since he'll obviously read that Cheesy

Feel free to say anything you want about me. I couldn't care less!

BTW, why does ppera have a forum?? A blog is more than enough for his needs.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
CJ
D-Bug member
Reboot Member
*****
Offline


D-Bug Founder

Posts: 1205
Location: State of Confusion
Joined: 22.02.07
Gender: Male
Re: Wow, ULS has no pre-cache - thats news to me!
Reply #50 - 09.01.10 at 14:23:56
Print Post  
But neither of them will be big enough to come and post here, where they know their lies and stupidity will take a soul crushing battering Smiley
  

"With only one button, even drooling fucktards like Kizza can play our game!"
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
CJ
D-Bug member
Reboot Member
*****
Offline


D-Bug Founder

Posts: 1205
Location: State of Confusion
Joined: 22.02.07
Gender: Male
Re: Wow, ULS has no pre-cache - thats news to me!
Reply #51 - 09.01.10 at 14:26:57
Print Post  
BTW @anemos

If you'd care to give us your IP I can easily block you from downloading from us. After all, your wonderful chum Mr Buggyboy Troll does everything for you now, you have no need for us.

I guess your too dumbfucked in the head to know most of his games don't actually work. Either that, or you are a super intelligent shade of the colour blue and can complete Armor Geddon in under two minutes (despite the fact that 400k of game data is missing)
  

"With only one button, even drooling fucktards like Kizza can play our game!"
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Christos
Distributor
Reboot Member
**
Offline


D-BUGer

Posts: 212
Joined: 06.03.07
Re: Wow, ULS has no pre-cache - thats news to me!
Reply #52 - 09.01.10 at 14:26:57
Print Post  
Right.. I am pretty confident pperror must have an account. We couldn't possibly have found and delete all of them.


  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Phill
Distributor
**
Offline


D-BUGer

Posts: 54
Joined: 19.10.09
Re: Wow, ULS has no pre-cache - thats news to me!
Reply #53 - 09.01.10 at 14:30:05
Print Post  
His account on EAB has now been deleted.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
banditos
RoMzkiddiEz
*
Offline


D-BUGer

Posts: 26
Joined: 04.01.09
Re: Wow, ULS has no pre-cache - thats news to me!
Reply #54 - 09.01.10 at 20:23:43
Print Post  
i guess Anemos and pperror is the same person. same english writtning errors:)
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Phill
Distributor
**
Offline


D-BUGer

Posts: 54
Joined: 19.10.09
Re: Wow, ULS has no pre-cache - thats news to me!
Reply #55 - 09.01.10 at 20:35:17
Print Post  
The original thread on EAB has now been deleted, so Pperror has nothing to link to.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Saviour
Distributor
**
Offline


/|\ ATARI Freak

Posts: 80
Location: Germany
Joined: 27.02.07
Gender: Male
Re: Wow, ULS has no pre-cache - thats news to me!
Reply #56 - 10.01.10 at 03:24:32
Print Post  
Shame on you D-Bug! Wink

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7EBQuCEeIs

This guy can never stop trolling...
  

- /|\ ATARI Falcon030 with PhantomS - TOS 4.04 - 68882 FPU - 14 MB RAM - 800 MB internal IDE Harddisk - External CD-ROM - MagiC 6.2 - Jinnee 2.01 - NVDI 5.01 - HD Driver 8.13
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
CJ
D-Bug member
Reboot Member
*****
Offline


D-Bug Founder

Posts: 1205
Location: State of Confusion
Joined: 22.02.07
Gender: Male
Re: Wow, ULS has no pre-cache - thats news to me!
Reply #57 - 10.01.10 at 06:13:14
Print Post  
The YouTube servers would run out of space if we uploaded all the vids of his fucked up stuff Smiley
  

"With only one button, even drooling fucktards like Kizza can play our game!"
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Christos
Distributor
Reboot Member
**
Offline


D-BUGer

Posts: 212
Joined: 06.03.07
Re: Wow, ULS has no pre-cache - thats news to me!
Reply #58 - 10.01.10 at 09:31:14
Print Post  
Right, that was his STE though, that who knows what he's done to it.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Phill
Distributor
**
Offline


D-BUGer

Posts: 54
Joined: 19.10.09
Re: Wow, ULS has no pre-cache - thats news to me!
Reply #59 - 10.01.10 at 12:22:42
Print Post  
Seriously boys, fucking annihilate the prick on YouTube, this dick needs taking down!
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 
Send TopicPrint
 
  « Board Index ‹ Board  ^Top