D-Bug & Automation Forum - TT compatibility?

19.05.24 at 13:07:38 (UTC)

D-Bug & Automation Forum › D-Bug & Automation Forum › ST/STE/MSTE/Falcon/TT Patches › TT compatibility?

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TT compatibility? (Read 2417 times)

ggn D-Bug member Reboot Member Offline D-Bug debugger Posts: 1464 Location: Somewhere in Greece Joined: 22.02.07 Gender:	TT compatibility? 22.03.07 at 18:55:48	Print Post
	Hi there, We'd love to change this section to "Falcon, TT and MegaSTE Fixes", but so far we had zero feedback. So, anyone reading this has a TT and wants to report how things are going there? The big problem is that none of us ever had a TT, so we can't really support it. I'm sure that if our stuff don't work there are good chances that it will be small changes. So, really looking forward to hearing from someone

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jvas RoMzkiddiEz Offline D-BUGer Posts: 10 Location: Budapest, Hungary Joined: 18.04.07 Gender:	Re: TT compatibility? Reply #1 - 18.04.07 at 13:36:49	Print Post
	Maybe not too late... I've got a TT and can test the Falcon/MegaSTE fixes in my spare time. Maybe I can start it this weekend.


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ggn D-Bug member Reboot Member Offline D-Bug debugger Posts: 1464 Location: Somewhere in Greece Joined: 22.02.07 Gender:	Re: TT compatibility? Reply #2 - 18.04.07 at 15:16:53	Print Post
	Welcome to the forum! It's never too late for that Thanks for the playtesting offer, we're all interested in seeing what actually works on TT On another note, I'll be donated a TT at Outline (most probably), so it'd be nice to actually try to fix some stuff without bugging TT users with beta builds Anyway, awaiting for your input when you can.

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jvas RoMzkiddiEz Offline D-BUGer Posts: 10 Location: Budapest, Hungary Joined: 18.04.07 Gender:	Re: TT compatibility? Reply #3 - 21.04.07 at 17:20:11	Print Post
	I did no deep testing. I just tried to run the game and play it with a couple of minutes. The reult of the first batch is: STARGLIDER2 - No sound/music. VAXINE - After the title screen the computer locks up (where the man is standing in a circle and a box) BACKLASH - OK. RVF HONDA - After the D-BUG screen the computer locks up with a black screen. LIVDIE - Too fast. Screen flickers. HADES - Too fast. No sound/music. VIRUS - Screen flickers. No sound/music. RTYPE - After the D-BUG screen the computer locks up with a black screen. XENON2 - After the D-BUG screen the computer locks up with a black screen. SPEEDBALL2 - After the D-BUG screen the computer locks up with a black screen. NORTH - After the title screen the computer locks up with a black screen. EAGLES - OK.


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ggn D-Bug member Reboot Member Offline D-Bug debugger Posts: 1464 Location: Somewhere in Greece Joined: 22.02.07 Gender:	Re: TT compatibility? Reply #4 - 21.04.07 at 21:58:51	Print Post
	Well, not too bad then, considering that I thought nothing would work at all If you have the courage, try playing with cache/cpu settings, you might have even better results

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jvas RoMzkiddiEz Offline D-BUGer Posts: 10 Location: Budapest, Hungary Joined: 18.04.07 Gender:	Re: TT compatibility? Reply #5 - 22.04.07 at 14:13:28	Print Post
	ggn wrote on 21.04.07 at 21:58:51: Well, not too bad then, considering that I thought nothing would work at all If you have the courage, try playing with cache/cpu settings, you might have even better results I know, that I can turn cache off, but what kind of CPU settings you mean? What I noticed is that the loaders recognize the computer as an ST.


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jens RoMzkiddiEz Offline High on the wire Posts: 17 Joined: 22.04.07 Gender:	Re: TT compatibility? Reply #6 - 22.04.07 at 20:59:29	Print Post
	Hi - I have only setup a TT with TTM 195, and I experienced that most games don't like TT high res. I might d/l some to try them, but I don't think I'd have much success.

	Greetings, Jens
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ggn D-Bug member Reboot Member Offline D-Bug debugger Posts: 1464 Location: Somewhere in Greece Joined: 22.02.07 Gender:	Re: TT compatibility? Reply #7 - 23.04.07 at 20:23:07	Print Post
	jvas wrote on 22.04.07 at 14:13:28: I know, that I can turn cache off, but what kind of CPU settings you mean? What I noticed is that the loaders recognize the computer as an ST. Ah, well I forgot that CJ's loader definitely doesn't detect a TT, and mine only detects it in its later incarnation (i.e. my latest patches). See? Another reason why there has to be a TT in d-bug

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jvas RoMzkiddiEz Offline D-BUGer Posts: 10 Location: Budapest, Hungary Joined: 18.04.07 Gender:	Re: TT compatibility? Reply #8 - 24.04.07 at 14:44:23	Print Post
	So what is next? Shall I play with the cache settings (I did with one game with no success) or shall I test the newest fixes?


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CJ D-Bug member Reboot Member Offline D-Bug Founder Posts: 1205 Location: State of Confusion Joined: 22.02.07 Gender:	Re: TT compatibility? Reply #9 - 25.04.07 at 03:40:51	Print Post
	Hey folks, CJ signing in from vacation Just a suggestion, maybe if GGN can knock up a small .PRG to change the cookie jar on the TT so the loaders think its an MSTe? Assuming CPU Speed/cache control is on the same $ffffxxxx address on the TT as the MSTe this might make a few more work?

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jvas RoMzkiddiEz Offline D-BUGer Posts: 10 Location: Budapest, Hungary Joined: 18.04.07 Gender:	Re: TT compatibility? Reply #10 - 25.04.07 at 07:35:30	Print Post
	CJ wrote on 25.04.07 at 03:40:51: Hey folks, CJ signing in from vacation Just a suggestion, maybe if GGN can knock up a small .PRG to change the cookie jar on the TT so the loaders think its an MSTe? Assuming CPU Speed/cache control is on the same $ffffxxxx address on the TT as the MSTe this might make a few more work? I don't think, that the cpu speed can be changed on the TT (32 MHz fixed). But I'm not sure.


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ggn D-Bug member Reboot Member Offline D-Bug debugger Posts: 1464 Location: Somewhere in Greece Joined: 22.02.07 Gender:	Re: TT compatibility? Reply #11 - 25.04.07 at 13:40:43	Print Post
	Well, you all just wait till I get my hands on a TT

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jens RoMzkiddiEz Offline High on the wire Posts: 17 Joined: 22.04.07 Gender:	Re: TT compatibility? Reply #12 - 25.04.07 at 13:42:13	Print Post
	ggn wrote on 25.04.07 at 13:40:43: Well, you all just wait till I get my hands on a TT Well - sixteen days left if everything goes right.
	« Last Edit: 25.04.07 at 13:42:24 by jens »
	Greetings, Jens
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jvas RoMzkiddiEz Offline D-BUGer Posts: 10 Location: Budapest, Hungary Joined: 18.04.07 Gender:	Re: TT compatibility? Reply #13 - 04.05.07 at 06:52:19	Print Post
	CJ wrote on 25.04.07 at 03:40:51: Hey folks, CJ signing in from vacation Just a suggestion, maybe if GGN can knock up a small .PRG to change the cookie jar on the TT so the loaders think its an MSTe? Assuming CPU Speed/cache control is on the same $ffffxxxx address on the TT as the MSTe this might make a few more work? It could cause problems with games which try to use the blitter if they think they run on a MegaSTE.


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ggn D-Bug member Reboot Member Offline D-Bug debugger Posts: 1464 Location: Somewhere in Greece Joined: 22.02.07 Gender:	Re: TT compatibility? Reply #14 - 04.05.07 at 07:44:19	Print Post
	CJ wrote on 25.04.07 at 03:40:51: Hey folks, CJ signing in from vacation Just a suggestion, maybe if GGN can knock up a small .PRG to change the cookie jar on the TT so the loaders think its an MSTe? Assuming CPU Speed/cache control is on the same $ffffxxxx address on the TT as the MSTe this might make a few more work? Ok, since this has been brought to my attention again: Sadly I can't see any CPU speed control on the TT (those registers we tinker with are Falcon specific), so I assume it's hardwired at 32Mhz. What does make a difference though is the cache, and I guess that we can turn this off. jvas wrote on 04.05.07 at 06:52:19: It could cause problems with games which try to use the blitter if they think they run on a MegaSTE. Don't worry, very few games actually use the blitter, so it should be safe Anyway, Outline is 1 week away, so hold your breath! (or don't )

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jvas RoMzkiddiEz Offline D-BUGer Posts: 10 Location: Budapest, Hungary Joined: 18.04.07 Gender:	Re: TT compatibility? Reply #15 - 04.05.07 at 18:49:36	Print Post
	Hey! Frontier runs fine on the TT. 3D at 32 MhZ !!! And another world also. But StuntCar freezes at the D-Bug screen
	« Last Edit: 04.05.07 at 19:04:32 by jvas »

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jens RoMzkiddiEz Offline High on the wire Posts: 17 Joined: 22.04.07 Gender:	Re: TT compatibility? Reply #16 - 07.05.07 at 21:24:04	Print Post
	ggn wrote on 04.05.07 at 07:44:19: [quote author=CJ link=1174589749/0#9 date=1177472451]Sadly I can't see any CPU speed control on the TT (those registers we tinker with are Falcon specific), so I assume it's hardwired at 32Mhz. What does make a difference though is the cache, and I guess that we can turn this off. First, I think the CPU speed can be controlled, and second, the cache definately can be turned off with the control panel.

	Greetings, Jens
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Shw D-Bug member Offline D-Bug member Posts: 367 Location: Kingston Upon Hull Joined: 22.02.07 Gender:	Re: TT compatibility? Reply #17 - 08.05.07 at 10:03:30	Print Post
	Maybe we can do some work on this at Outline Shw


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ggn D-Bug member Reboot Member Offline D-Bug debugger Posts: 1464 Location: Somewhere in Greece Joined: 22.02.07 Gender:	Re: TT compatibility? Reply #18 - 08.05.07 at 11:05:31	Print Post
	jens wrote on 07.05.07 at 21:24:04: First, I think the CPU speed can be controlled, and second, the cache definately can be turned off with the control panel. Well, since the cache is controlled internally from the CPU it can be switched off just like on the falcon: Code moveq #0,d0 movec d0,cacr While the CPU frequency comes from an oscillator which is external to the CPU. Now, firstly, I haven't found any evidence on the internet that this frequency can be adjusted (take a look at the classic hardware.txt: no references on that there). Secondly, why should it on the TT? As far as I understand it Atari designed the TT as a desktop machine mostly, while the Falcon was designed with ST compatibility in mind. So I really don't think we can avoid the 32MHz frequency. Personally I'm not bothered by it, since games play faster with a 16MHz falcon, so I can only imagine what happens at 32

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CJ D-Bug member Reboot Member Offline D-Bug Founder Posts: 1205 Location: State of Confusion Joined: 22.02.07 Gender:	Re: TT compatibility? Reply #19 - 08.05.07 at 17:50:38	Print Post
	Just a thought... If a game is playing way too fast, we could stuff the main loop with a HUGE NOP/DBF loop to slow it down on the TT (Providing the cache is off) But not having one, I guess this is GGN's department

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ggn D-Bug member Reboot Member Offline D-Bug debugger Posts: 1464 Location: Somewhere in Greece Joined: 22.02.07 Gender:	Re: TT compatibility? Reply #20 - 08.05.07 at 17:54:33	Print Post
	CJ wrote on 08.05.07 at 17:50:38: Just a thought... If a game is playing way too fast, we could stuff the main loop with a HUGE NOP/DBF loop to slow it down on the TT (Providing the cache is off) But not having one, I guess this is GGN's department TBH I had that thought in the morning while I was writing that other post. The VBR can help there (you know, set up a dummy vector base somewhere other than $0, then make a vbl that eats up cpu and then jumps at the original vbl). ggn (digging his grave even further )

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jvas RoMzkiddiEz Offline D-BUGer Posts: 10 Location: Budapest, Hungary Joined: 18.04.07 Gender:	Re: TT compatibility? Reply #21 - 09.05.07 at 08:52:47	Print Post
	Patching the game to run on the computer instead of patching the computer to run the game would be better � I would like to benefit from the horsepower that the TT has.
	« Last Edit: 09.05.07 at 08:54:43 by jvas »

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ggn D-Bug member Reboot Member Offline D-Bug debugger Posts: 1464 Location: Somewhere in Greece Joined: 22.02.07 Gender:	Re: TT compatibility? Reply #22 - 09.05.07 at 10:54:41	Print Post
	jvas wrote on 09.05.07 at 08:52:47: Patching the game to run on the computer instead of patching the computer to run the game would be better � I would like to benefit from the horsepower that the TT has. Well it depends on the game doesn't it? For example, it would be utterly stupid to do this to flight sims or games in gerenal that do frame skipping. For example, Another world runs really smooth on my Falcon with 16MHz and cache on, I bet it runs like a dream on the TT! On the other hand, The Gold of the Aztecs already runs too fast with 16MHz + Cache on, what would it be like with 32MHz? Even with cache off I'd bet it would be unplayable. So imo a slowdown loop might be needed for games like those. And shoot'em'ups too. I'd hate to fix something for the TT that is virtually unplayable just because the CPU runs too fast. Anyway, the slowdown can easily be a user choice (that will please all I think) T -2 days for outline

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