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25 (M)ST(E) Double VBL (TwinSync) Bug and Solution (Read 8519 times)
CJ
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Re: Remo's speed issue
Reply #30 - 04.02.09 at 07:46:12
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This Topic was moved here from Internal Testing forum [move by] CJ.
  
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CJ
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Re: Remo's speed issue
Reply #31 - 04.02.09 at 13:09:24
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From DHS:

Earx wrote:
on the falcon the double vbl bug is caused by insufficient termination on the vga interface. hence, the vbl signal bounces back from the monitor to the falcon's hardware.

some vga monitors or adapters have higher resistance so the bug doesn't occur (probably as with the atari engineer's monitor).

the same thing could be affecting your mega ste. that's the only thing i can come up with.
  
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remowilliams
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Re: Remo's speed issue
Reply #32 - 04.02.09 at 18:42:16
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HOLY F*ING MOLY!  Hit it out of the park on the first shot!!

It's my goddamn SCART cable!   AHHHHHHHH!  the madness!    Cheesy

VBL_INTR.PRG plays correctly when connected to a trusty old C1084S.  When I plug in the SCART setup, I suddenly get the wacky music.  And it changes on the fly if you plug or unplug it.  It's like some electronics carnival trick from hell.   Shocked

Actually the SCART cable by itself doesn't cause it, I have to connect the cable to the SCART switchbox, or directly to the component converter for it to cause it.

Of course this is a different problem as I need the SCART setup to work with my modern display, but at least it is quantifiable now.

Thanks for all your help guys, you are the best!  Smiley
« Last Edit: 04.02.09 at 19:43:29 by remowilliams »  
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CJ
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Re: Remo's speed issue
Reply #33 - 05.02.09 at 02:36:11
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Or.. pack it all away and put the falcon there instead. There. problem solved Smiley
  
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remowilliams
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Re: Remo's speed issue
Reply #34 - 05.02.09 at 03:25:18
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CJ wrote on 05.02.09 at 02:36:11:
Or.. pack it all away and put the falcon there instead. There. problem solved Smiley

Yes there is always that too.  If I had a way to hook the Falcon to the component inputs on the display I use for this stuff, I probably would have done that.

Anyhow, I (sort of) fixed the issue in the interim until I can get a pro opinion on the right way to do things.   I separated my H&VSYNC tied inputs to SCART 20, and left HSYNC there, while moving VSYNC to SCART 11 to create a sync on green signal which my component converter accepts.  I think I made the picture a bit dingier looking, but at least VBL music and routines play at the right speed now!!   Cool
  
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Christos
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Re: Remo's speed issue
Reply #35 - 05.02.09 at 12:06:25
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remowilliams wrote on 05.02.09 at 03:25:18:
CJ wrote on 05.02.09 at 02:36:11:
Or.. pack it all away and put the falcon there instead. There. problem solved Smiley

Yes there is always that too.  If I had a way to hook the Falcon to the component inputs on the display I use for this stuff, I probably would have done that.

Anyhow, I (sort of) fixed the issue in the interim until I can get a pro opinion on the right way to do things.   I separated my H&VSYNC tied inputs to SCART 20, and left HSYNC there, while moving VSYNC to SCART 11 to create a sync on green signal which my component converter accepts.  I think I made the picture a bit dingier looking, but at least VBL music and routines play at the right speed now!!   Cool


Anything wrong with just hooking it up on a VGA monitor? Anyway, component is pretty easy on the falcon. Just soldering 2 wires..
  
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remowilliams
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Re: Remo's speed issue
Reply #36 - 05.02.09 at 21:19:54
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Two wires for component?   Huh

Anyhow yeah, the display I use in the 'classic' area here is a 15Khz component capable CRT.  I can use it with RGB outs from lots 'o' my classic consoles and computers (like *gasp* my Amigas  Grin, and even my Speccy +2)
  
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Christos
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Re: Remo's speed issue
Reply #37 - 05.02.09 at 21:22:30
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Yes.. two wires. Made a few of those to record my videos from the falcon. Here's the schematics.

http://alive.atari.org/alive14/composit.php
  
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remowilliams
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Re: Remo's speed issue
Reply #38 - 05.02.09 at 21:25:00
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Christos wrote on 05.02.09 at 21:22:30:
Yes.. two wires. Made a few of those to record my videos from the falcon. Here's the schematics.

http://alive.atari.org/alive14/composit.php

Ah, composite video - yeah that's different.  Component is YPbPr.  Like RGB but a bit different.

Thanks for the link though, I didn't know the Falcon had that.  Wink
  
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Christos
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Re: Remo's speed issue
Reply #39 - 05.02.09 at 21:28:35
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Aha, I thought that's what component was..  Anyway, i think the falcon is meant for vga
  
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remowilliams
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Re: Remo's speed issue
Reply #40 - 05.02.09 at 21:40:00
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Yeah the Falcon is 31.5Khz RGB/VGA.  Great in most senses for using modern displays (not so great for my specialized classic setup).

VGA of course became a pain in the ass for legacy software, but I see people working on that little problem now.   Cool
  
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remowilliams
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Re: Remo's speed issue
Reply #41 - 13.02.09 at 23:03:39
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So for posterity, or in case someone cares, or there is someone out there who has luck like I do...   Cheesy

I seem to have solved the dingy video problem that was caused by creating a SCART sync on green.  

Excepting ground, here is the final config:

Code
Select All
ST			SCART

HSYNC	----[100Ω]-----	20
RED	----[150Ω]-----	15
BLUE	----[150Ω]-----	7

GREEN----[150Ω]-------- 11
                     /
VSYNC----[150Ω]-----/

AUDIO			2&6



  
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CJ
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Re: Remo's speed issue
Reply #42 - 13.02.09 at 23:20:21
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I'll change the title of the thread so it doesnt make you out to be a drug addict Smiley
  
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remowilliams
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Re: (M)ST(E) Double VBL (TwinSync) Bug and Solution
Reply #43 - 14.02.09 at 06:56:07
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Thanks CJ for the topic change.  In addition to my substance abuse vindication, hopefully a lost soul or two out there might find just the info they are looking for.  Smiley

CJ wrote on 31.01.09 at 23:22:38:
Ok, I was just discussing this with GGN and he thought you meant his intro (big D-Bug logo moving in a circle, text over it) and I thought you all meant my intro (static D-Bug logo, wobbly text over it)
However, we both concluded it doesnt matter as they both use standard trap calls to read the keyboard.

I do, however, know that the strobing/disjointed text you are describing does indeed happen on my intro when the falcon is exhibiting the very well known twinsync bug, but this doesnt explain the MSTE problem.


As far as the 'twinsync' issue - you called it, and indeed the intros work correctly as they should now.
  
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